Implemented FEP type?

[silverpill]

@helge

use material for mkdocs to do the markdown → html transformation

Is it necessary? The previous layout was easier to navigate and IMO looked better.

[aschrijver]

@silverpill

FEP is not a party in any standardization process. I remember that you discussed the idea of using FEPs as inputs for other processes, but this is not happening yet, and even if happens in the future, that won’t change anything about the FEP process, because it is independent from other efforts.

I find this weird. Yes, it is part of standardization, or else we would only have individual codebases as only place to learn about enhancements. In my argument for a 3-stage bottom up grassroots standardization process the FEP is fully independent. But it is not alone. It’s purpose is to be part of the pathways that lead to robust open standards, so that broad adoption is stimulated. Specifications that foster the interoperability around systems using the ActivityPub communication protocol in service of the open social web. ActivityPub et al, that is.

ActivityPub was never alone. It is tied to ActivityStreams and Linked Data, to Json. And yes, also to Webfinger, NodeInfo and a host of other standards or de-facto standards. When we talk about it we talk about fostering and evolving a protocol suite really. Creating a happy family. Zot/Nomad, OCapN, ERIS … all most most welcome if its up to me. Together becoming more standardized all of the time (in whatever way each member of the family wants, with FEP at their disposal if they wish), and stimulating further adoption in our society.

If there is a new incompatible federated open social protocol and it gains traction, has nifty bridges to AS/AP? Then I am totally fine to say: Welcome to the Fediverse. The discussion of what belongs or not belongs under “fediverse” banner isn’t as clear-cut what you make it to be. There is ideological heat around that. Personally I am not very picky, and I see “fediverse” as some universal category name in similar vein as we say “web” and “internet”. And it is inhabited with fedizens. Not a brand name for the network of AS/AP based apps.

The repo logo is but bikeshedding, of course, a minor brand improvement. But the rest I just typed I feel is quite important for FEP positioning.

PS. The 3-stage process is under consideration at the SWICG:

3-stage Standardization Process Proposal in staging proposal

[nutomic]

Seeing as Hubzilla was mentioned, Ibis would also be an option for this, and it should be more lightweight being focused on wikis without all the social media functionality.

Some other features of Ibis:

• Easy to setup, only requires a single binary
• Based on markdown including various extensions (eg footnotes)
• Fully federated (so people could edit FEPs collaboratively)
• Soon: comments federated using FEP-1b12, so users can comment directly from Socialhub and other sites

[silverpill]

@aschrijver

I find this weird. Yes, it is part of standardization, or else we would only have individual codebases as only place to learn about enhancements.

Yes, in some sense it plays a role in standardization, because proposals may become de-facto standards when enough services implement them. But you said “increase awareness of the FEP as an official party in the 3-stage bottom-up standardization process”. Even if SWICG wants this 3-stage process, and wants to unilaterally make FEP an official party in it, I don’t see why we should increase the awareness of that.

@aschrijver

The discussion of what belongs or not belongs under “fediverse” banner isn’t as clear-cut what you make it to be.

Well, to me it is as clear-cut as possible: there are many guides, diagrams and wikis (including Wikipedia articles), two weekly newsletters, and then the FEP process itself, and all they currently agree in their view on what Fediverse is.
You seem to agree with that view too, but why do you suggest changing the branding to ActivityPub?
In any case, I think this ship has sailed. We can’t rename FEP to APEP without seriously damaging the whole ecosystem.

[aschrijver]

This started by the logo, not the name, and what would give the strongest presence for a FEP with growing relevancy, anchored within the ecosystem. And it is getting too OT for this thread.

[helge]

@silverpill

@helge

use material for mkdocs to do the markdown → html transformation

Is it necessary? The previous layout was easier to navigate and IMO looked better.

Yes, in the sense that: I do not want to write a static site generator, and I know how to use mkdocs.

If somebody wants to build the static site infrastructure.

• Start by cloning my fep version.

git clone https://codeberg.org/helge/fep.git

• The current markdown is in fep/scripts/docs at main - helge/fep - Codeberg.org
• the mkdocs configuration is in fep/scripts/mkdocs.yml at main - helge/fep - Codeberg.org
• And the files in pieces (containing the markdown tables) can be generated by running

./scripts/make_page.py

from the root.

Getting this to the point, where we can build a nice static site, is my current priority for this. I don’t have the headspace to investigate if current Fediverse software can do it.

[silverpill]

@helge

./scripts/make_page.py

FileNotFoundError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'scripts/pieces/final.md'

I had to create scripts/pieces directory to make it work

[WisTex]

@aschrijver

ActivityPub was never alone. It is tied to ActivityStreams and Linked Data, to Json. And yes, also to Webfinger, NodeInfo and a host of other standards or de-facto standards. When we talk about it we talk about fostering and evolving a protocol suite really. Creating a happy family. Zot/Nomad, OCapN, ERIS … all most most welcome if its up to me. Together becoming more standardized all of the time (in whatever way each member of the family wants, with FEP at their disposal if they wish), and stimulating further adoption in our society.

And a lot of these protocols share technologies. Nomad/Zot uses ActivityStreams, NodeInfo, and Webfinger, for example. And there is cross-pollinating going on. For example, (streams) and Mitra recently brought nomadic identity to ActivityPub and is available as an FEP. This was originally only available in Nomad/Zot.

It also should be noted that the fediverse is older than ActivityPub, and some of the OG protocols of the early fediverse are still around, such as Nomad/Zot and Diaspora. So it would be inaccurate to classify the fediverse as ActivityPub only.

So I agree with @aschrijver that the Fediverse should not just be ActivityPub.