Should we fork AS/AP specs to Codeberg, create vNext drafts?

[eprodrom]

It sounds like the right resolution of your problem is to do a second pass on the wiki page and list exactly which Actor properties are specified as singular in the text or in practice.

[bobwyman]

Melvin asks:

could you please clarify the options for following or replying to a thread without being a member?

While the W3C requirements for IP waivers and disclosures have a “cost,” in that they limit participation, it is very important to remember that they also provide a very significant benefit.

bob wyman

[eprodrom]

What’s the @type issue you’re unsure about?

[eprodrom]

Hey, Melvin. You asked for clarification and I provided a clearer answer. There is no way a clarification can happen that does not involve change.

[eprodrom]

Right now, I’m working from the oldest issues forward. I do a weekly livestreamed triage. I am switching off between AP and AS2 week by week.

[trwnh]

@eprodrom

AP’s unfortunate implicit Create rule messes it up a bit.

is there any Activity which doesn’t have an actor? why can’t we unambiguously say/clarify that any as2 document POSTed to outbox MUST NOT be wrapped in a Create if it contains actor?

[eprodrom]

Two things:

1. Leaving the actor out of activities in the outbox is a pretty natural optimization, since all the activities will have the same actor.
2. We don’t need to make normative changes to keep this easy for client and server! If you’re a client, and you want to be well understood, don’t use the Create shortcut for object types that aren’t in AS2 Vocabulary, and use the multiple types format for Activity objects that aren’t in Vocab.

[melvincarvalho]

@eprodrom

There is no way a clarification can happen that does not involve change.

Its a case of trying to understand what was written. The process of learning and understanding does not necessarily mean that the material presented needs to change.

[melvincarvalho]

What about taking the FEP process and making it into a W3C note?

[aschrijver]

I like that idea. If this is an option (depending on feedback) could you all then update the wiki on increasing cohesion between independent initiatives?

[melvincarvalho]

Along with making the FEPs an official W3C Note, I have suggested a path towards standards compliance here:

Proposal: fix the AS vocab/context and make it standards compliant

In the W3C Social Web Working Group, we recommended the Activity Pub and Activity Streams groups to adopt linked data standards. While they adopted some, others were not considered. The benefits of this selective approach are still uncertain. To address this, I suggest the following modifications to Activity Streams (AS): Implement versioning in the context, similar to other systems. Currently, AS has a single, mutable context. This context has evolved over time with the inclusion of more te…

[trwnh]

@eprodrom

you’re a client, and you want to be well understood, don’t use the Create shortcut

the client doesn’t have anything to do with this – it’s the server that decides to wrap in a Create. and the server can’t (and shouldn’t) be aware of every single extension activity type a priori.

@eprodrom

Leaving the actor out of activities in the outbox is a pretty natural optimization, since all the activities will have the same actor.

what about inbox forwarding? some activities will be performed by a different actor.

[eprodrom]

I think that would be very cool. SWICG can publish notes.

[eprodrom]

Of course. Wikis can be confusing if you’re used to conversation mode. Changing the full document is the main way to make improvements. Fortunately there’s a document history function that lets you find older versions.

[eprodrom]

Yes, I understand that it’s the server that does it!

If you are writing an AP client, and you want to have reliable behaviour from different servers, don’t use the Create shortcut for extended types. You’re depending on the server to figure it out, and that’s not going to be reliable.

I’m not sure what to tell you about outboxes that don’t have the same actor for every activity. I don’t think it’s possible as specified. I’d guess if it were the case, don’t leave out the actor property!

[codenamedmitri]

@melvincarvalho

could you please clarify the options for following or replying to a thread without being a member?

So, joining a CG call or posting to the CG mailing list does not require membership or signing anything.
However, to make any significant contribution to the spec, requires signing the IP agreement (which protects the CG against patent trolls).

[melvincarvalho]

This is great! Do you by any chance have some instructions on how to do that? I could try and figure it out, if not.

[codenamedmitri]

Which part?

To be able to contribute, go to the CG homepage https://www.w3.org/community/SocialCG/ and click Join. This will prompt you to fill out the Contributor Agreement (W3C Community Contributor License Agreement (CLA) | Community and Business Groups)

To just sign up for the mailing list (which you’re already on, but I mention in case others are curious) - does not require joining the group or signing the CLA, go to public-swicg@w3.org Mail Archives and click on the Subscribe link.

[melvincarvalho]

@codenamedmitri

To just sign up for the mailing list (which you’re already on, but I mention in case others are curious) - does not require joining the group or signing the CLA, go to public-swicg@w3.org Mail Archives and click on the Subscribe link.

Perfect, I think a lot of people didnt know that, so were not participating.

[eprodrom]

I did a second pass, and changed “these properties” to be more specific about which properties to be careful with.

https://www.w3.org/wiki/ActivityPub/Primer/Cardinality_of_properties