Webinar with the European Commission and AP Community

Thank you! I propose the same BBB instance that we used the last time, but let’s see also if others can join - they seemed to be knowing more more information about the instance / meeting places.

I was thinking that if someone can’t make it but would still want to speak with me, maybe a good idea would be to “book” some time in the availabilities I mentioned and we just see each other then, 1 on 1 at least. Just let me know about this. Thank you!

Best to make this a separate topic e.g. “Preparation meetups for EC events” with a top-level wiki post where we show dates and people can edit their availability. I find it hard to see what is getting planned in this large thread…

I created this for that purpose: Preparation meetups for EC Events


Hi Sebastian,

I did not mean to not respond to your proposals, I was still considering and investigating them, and working to first establish the agenda, inviting interested parties, etcetera. Let’s discuss your suggestions here.

We will actually mention and include European projects, as you can see in the 1st presentation (see the HedgeDoc). These suggestions/offers are not defined by me or anyone else at NLnet, I need to emphasize. I made some suggestions for wording/summarizing certain points in the presentation, nothing more. We only want to host a discussion about the fediverse and ActivityPub, leveraging some contacts we have in the European Commission. Nothing more.

Regarding the platform, for reasons of time and familiarity the BBB of W3C was suggested by @how. Unfortunately this BBB appears to be blocked by the EC’s VPN (probably the entire .social-tld) which is why I would suggest to fallback to a BBB-instance hosted by the TU Delft. I very much appreciate your suggestions, Immers looks like an awesome virtual meetup solution, we could still switch to this, I would have to check we are not blocked by the same VPN issue.

I actually did reply to many people who offered help here and elsewhere, and as stated before, I was still considering your ideas and suggestions as we have not yet finally made a decision on what meetup tool to use. I do not agree with the notion of me or anyone at NLnet/NGI Zero simply calling the shots, deciding what to do, and ignoring everyone’s help and ideas. Just to make that clear.

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Friday would also work for me, we would need to use the BBB-instance of TU Delft for now (link again here: https://bbb.tbm.tudelft.nl/) as long as we are still not sure what tools/tld’s are and aren’t blocked by the EC’s VPN.

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@j8ter @CristinaDeLisle see also Preparation meetups for EC Events (Editable Wiki) … we can add multiple dates here and then finalize on where most people can join, or have multiple meetings if needed. I created it to save back and forth in the thread here.


OK cats lets work toward a consensus on this - as long as we keep it #KISS and don’t push agenders to hard a simple outreach presentation to the #EU is possible. Let’s focus on a balance of grassroots and burocratic in a way that the majority of people can understand while keeping in mind who we are talking to.

As I said before we could highlight how the:

grassroots + practical approach of fediverse complements the highly structure + strategic approach of the EU/EC

We have to be aware that in this Event we give a first impression of ourselves to an audience used to working in very formal organizations. I am a bit worried that, if we are looking too disorganized, anarchistic even, there is a big threat of people losing interest (btw, mostly this might happen in the discussion, if people come in with overly anti-capitalist feelings and uttering “underbelly” feelings on big tech).

There’s a need to be diplomatic, imho.

I am sure that in a same event with e.g. Solid that solid representatives - whatever you think of it - are all business-like, matter-of-fact and well-dressed up. Very aware that this is also about ‘marketing’ ourselves, and not entirely ‘being’ ourselves :slight_smile:


I would like to point out - just in case - that the right-side view in side-by-side editing is NOT how it looks in Slide mode!

Slide mode is in right-side dropdown menu. Significant shortening / editing is needed. I consider current presentation more of an agreement on what content we want to show, rather than its final format.

Maybe something like this?

ActivityPub and the EU

It’s a good fit both strategically, in challenging the big US tech corporations dominance and tactically, in it being simple to implement and open to innovation as it is outside of anyone group control and agendas.

In tomorrow’s workshop let’s look at practical small steps to make this happen.

EC Tech Notes

Thursday 15 April 2021, 14:00 CEST


  • Alexandre LEAO
  • hellekin (@how)


We want to clarify the availability of ActivityPub services on the EC EDPS side or means to provision them.


  • SocialHub
  • Existing ActivityPub Infrastructure

Duration: 30 minutes

Visio link to SocialHub


Register to https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/?

@how makes a short presentation of the SocialHub to Alexandre.

Existing ActivityPub Infrastructure

What can we use?

Following Schrems 2 decisions[1] of the European Court of Justice, Robert at EDPS tried launching 2 test pilots to test Mastodon and Peertube as a way to experiment with more privacy-friendly social media.

Now trying to provision these services and secure domains under europa.eu (i.e., will not be available for the webinars and workshop).

Can use private computer and use virtual machine.

What we can do

  • use the activitypub.eu domain to provision a VM on Hetzner cloud
  • add SSH access (ed25519 keys) for participants.
  • use tmux sessions to share screen and install services[2] live during the workshop.
  • stack: nginx + certbot + either git or docker

What EDPS wants to do

Test pilots with:

  • Peertube
  • Mastodon

Main goal is to get EU institutions on board.

Action Points

What needs to be done?

  • @how reports meeting conclusions to SocialHub
  • @how provisions VM
  • Alexandre provides an SSH public key

  1. invalidates Data Protection Shield ↩︎

  2. maybe Peertube, Mastodon, Mobilizon to be discussed during the second webinar. ↩︎


@j8ter I just notice that the NGI announcement doesn’t have the latest version of the image, without EU in it as Jean-Luc requested.

That is an oversight on my end, as apparently - after creating them - I forgot to upload the square variants of the images. So sorry about that. But it has given the opportunity to add the final title for the event.

Here are these versions in SVG and PNG respectively:




I just sent out another announcement toot. Boosts appreciated, or borrow the text:

(PS. If you toot the published announcement page (/pub/) then there’s no preview image. Use the topic URL with /t/ instead)

Update: Announcement on Lemmy


Yes, and there’s another angle too: risk.

On the one hand the EU is trying to tackle big tech. After many years of downplaying the problem, it’s now recognised. On the other hand the EC itself uses these BigTech platforms themselves for comms work.

While no-one could expect them to stop using them today, it would send a clear political statement if the EC announced they are now posting to the Fediverse. And it would protect them from the risk of being accused of hypocrisy.

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That would definitely be something to avoid. Being seen as “techno cranks” (rightly or wrongly) would be the kiss of death. Eurocrats are risk averse.

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If you read back nobody is pushing that agender as it clearly is inappropriate for this outreach.

I can only think you are bringing this up as “power politics” move, PLEASE stop with these microaggressions as they make us look like “techno cranks”. @mathewlowry and @aschrijver you guys are highlighting the gap between grassroots and burocratic working and communication - we need to build bridges not dynamite them.

Can we focus on “consensuses” and stop pushing agenders.

We have limited time to “herd cats” for a good outcome.

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I’m sorry that’s the way you perceive me, Hamish. I still don’t know what agendas you’re talking about. I only got involved here because I want this to succeed and believe I have something to offer. Others seem to agree.

If there’s a gap between this grassroots movement and the way the EC should be communicated with, then I think highlighting that gap is a useful way of ensuring we don’t trip over it! But I’m not forcing anything on anyone: if what I have offered is seen as useful, great - if not, that’s OK too.

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#activertypub like #RSS and the #www came out of grassroots movements, they bring world views with them its WHY THEY WORK. Yes the world view are in part incompatible with #mainstreaming, so the is a strong burocratic desire to hide these world views and then push them out of view/existence.

To get away from the “big picture” lets focus on this presentation.

  • Its open to both world views, we need to find a good balance so the grassroots do not feel blatantly sold out and the Eurocratic do not get scared and run for their power politics bunkers.

The balance is the key, we have a good group here lets try harder/better and be nice.

I think I am being nice, hamish. I simply proffered my perspective and experience. I didn’t accuse anyone of playing power politics, or pushing agendas, or aggressing anyone. You did that. Please stop.

PS FYI, I published the EC’s first RSS and customisable XML feeds in 2002. It took me 6 months of patient explaining to get the Sec-General’s OK.

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So lets make this happen :slight_smile:

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We’re stepping aside to dislocate this polarization forced on us by centuries of power politics. By doing so we’re not characterizing our interlocutors as a uniform caricature, but recognize their diversity. By showing our unity in diversity we’re already impressing the EC, I can tell you that. We’ve had comments about how our organization of the Webinar is already very well appreciated in comparison to everything they’ve seen so far where people try pushing their own agendas. Let’s keep this in focus. Everyone in the room has things to gain from this liaison.