Webinar with the European Commission and AP Community

Hey @j8ter

have you realised the immers comments and that Will offered to help a long time ago?
It is really awesome, BBB has nothing to do with ActivtityPub so I think it would be nice if the people check out the https://www.grantfortheweb.org flagship project and

  • directly get a fediverse handle
  • we meet in a virtualized 3D world with positional audio
  • we can follow each other etc. via ActivityPub

See datatitian’s answer …

This one HedgeDoc - Collaborative markdown notes

It’s going in the right direction I think. You don’t have to use what am saying here, but just hint at it a bit :slight_smile:

We have a clash of languages and assumptions for example “surveillance capitalism” and the “social dilemma” both come from inside business and Silicon Valley thinking - so they are not good examples to use for an ActivtityPub presentation which itself is COUNTER Silicon Valley thinking and has its own way of expressing these issues. Just use natural descriptive language instead of quoting the terms.

I don’t have an issue with web01 and web02 yes they are not correct, but they do communicate.

  1. “cooperate” the word “network” would work just as well but understand why cooperate is used.

  2. is woolly, can understand way, but its still woolly.

  3. i don’t understand at all.

  4. is fine

  5. Needs work and a stronger conclusion. Can draft something if you like.

Off to fix a leek in the roof, you guys are doing a good job

I agree with Hamish regarding the wording.

On web01 / 02 - it makes sense to a general audience, indeed.

  1. No strong opinion, could be either cooperate or network on the slide.
  2. Yes, indeed, thanks for the understanding :slight_smile:
  3. In the privacy by design architecture, there are more principles which are to be integrated into designing software. One of them is separation, which makes decentralization a best practice when it comes to building privacy by design software. It’s somewhat specific language for privacy professionals, but it’s not hard to follow by a general audience imo. I could take it out if it’s too confusing.
  4. Ok
  5. Yes, please, I am welcoming any idea about how to end it in a better way, if any.

Thank you, Hamish! Good luck with the roof fixing! :+1:

Agreed. It’s always nicer to tell the story that’s important to oneself, but it’s more effective to tell the story that the audience can understand and empathise with.

These are terms this audience is (probably) more familiar with. If we want them on board, we’re better off using concepts they are already familiar with, lowering their cognitive load.

It’s easy to insult people while seaming not to and push #mainstreaing agenders while pretending to be neutral, this is normal burocratic power politics.

We have an issue of “herding cats” in this presentation and are looking for a working consensus.

Your presentation is good for the EU would likely work… but it’s not the story of some people here, and the groups who built the #openweb you talk about, we have to work towards bridging this in a constructive way.

If I insulted someone I apologise unreservedly. I’m new here, and don’t have the history, so I’d hope that - as I asked - my contributions be seen as constructive, based as they are on some experience with introducing new online technologies to the Brussels bubble.

My lack of history means I don’t even know what you mean by pushing agendas or neutrality.

I am not pretending anything. And I don’t engage in bureaucratic power politics. Ever.

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We clearly need a meeting to settle these points, because I have issues following them all in writing. Let’s have a meeting/s where we go through comments and reach consensus on the content of slides and also check some ideas about graphics, if any. I proposed some hours before, I am writing them again here (hours are CET):

  • Thursday: might be able to join a meeting from 11h30 - 13h30, but it would be challenging. I’m available later in the day, after 18h00.

  • Friday: the proposal is 15h00 or anything after 18h00.

  • Saturday & Sunday: all day, but preferable I would have all content settled by then.

    I have to say that I am very happy with the fact that most of the initial ideas were well received and atm I have no strong opinion about what to add / take down. This might appear though during our meeting, maybe I missed something out.

My personal goal is just to have some consensus from you all that I am saying the right things and it makes you feel comfortable without feeling like you are missing on too much of your important ideas you wish to integrate.

Let’s keep in mind that this is not having a political color, it’s neutral, it’s about ActivityPub being presented to the EU in a unifying way. It’s normal to have things missed out on all sides of the various perspectives, being a single presentation. I count on the entire rest of the event to unveil more opinions and answer questions from the EU representatives, if they don’t understand something.

I thank you all for the work done so far and I appreciate a lot that at this moment we have feedback from everyone. Let’s settle on a final unifying view and I’m so proud of everything we managed to do as a team so far. :+1:

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@hamishcampbell does this make sense to you now? I’m asking because I’m not sure if this slide should stay or not, given the feedbacks so far. Also, please feel free to come up with an ending suggestion. :+1:

Hey Mathew,

if it was me, who brought you here:
I am sorry what it became since the people with money came in here.
The same people who want to ban indymedia …

Nobody like @j8ter ever replied to the people who offered help.
While we are paying.

I am sorry, Mathew.

@how Please note, I am getting more and more complaints about the fosshost loosing https each 4 weeks and more and more complaints about FediDB.

NGI - PLEASE NOTE: The BBB is also run with private money!

“Supported by y0sh-network (as207671.net)”

Friday 15h CET works for me. Where?

Thank you! I propose the same BBB instance that we used the last time, but let’s see also if others can join - they seemed to be knowing more more information about the instance / meeting places.

I was thinking that if someone can’t make it but would still want to speak with me, maybe a good idea would be to “book” some time in the availabilities I mentioned and we just see each other then, 1 on 1 at least. Just let me know about this. Thank you!

Best to make this a separate topic e.g. “Preparation meetups for EC events” with a top-level wiki post where we show dates and people can edit their availability. I find it hard to see what is getting planned in this large thread…

I created this for that purpose: Preparation meetups for EC Events


Hi Sebastian,

I did not mean to not respond to your proposals, I was still considering and investigating them, and working to first establish the agenda, inviting interested parties, etcetera. Let’s discuss your suggestions here.

We will actually mention and include European projects, as you can see in the 1st presentation (see the HedgeDoc). These suggestions/offers are not defined by me or anyone else at NLnet, I need to emphasize. I made some suggestions for wording/summarizing certain points in the presentation, nothing more. We only want to host a discussion about the fediverse and ActivityPub, leveraging some contacts we have in the European Commission. Nothing more.

Regarding the platform, for reasons of time and familiarity the BBB of W3C was suggested by @how. Unfortunately this BBB appears to be blocked by the EC’s VPN (probably the entire .social-tld) which is why I would suggest to fallback to a BBB-instance hosted by the TU Delft. I very much appreciate your suggestions, Immers looks like an awesome virtual meetup solution, we could still switch to this, I would have to check we are not blocked by the same VPN issue.

I actually did reply to many people who offered help here and elsewhere, and as stated before, I was still considering your ideas and suggestions as we have not yet finally made a decision on what meetup tool to use. I do not agree with the notion of me or anyone at NLnet/NGI Zero simply calling the shots, deciding what to do, and ignoring everyone’s help and ideas. Just to make that clear.

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Friday would also work for me, we would need to use the BBB-instance of TU Delft for now (link again here: https://bbb.tbm.tudelft.nl/) as long as we are still not sure what tools/tld’s are and aren’t blocked by the EC’s VPN.

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@j8ter @CristinaDeLisle see also Preparation meetups for EC Events (Editable Wiki) … we can add multiple dates here and then finalize on where most people can join, or have multiple meetings if needed. I created it to save back and forth in the thread here.


OK cats lets work toward a consensus on this - as long as we keep it #KISS and don’t push agenders to hard a simple outreach presentation to the #EU is possible. Let’s focus on a balance of grassroots and burocratic in a way that the majority of people can understand while keeping in mind who we are talking to.

As I said before we could highlight how the:

grassroots + practical approach of fediverse complements the highly structure + strategic approach of the EU/EC

We have to be aware that in this Event we give a first impression of ourselves to an audience used to working in very formal organizations. I am a bit worried that, if we are looking too disorganized, anarchistic even, there is a big threat of people losing interest (btw, mostly this might happen in the discussion, if people come in with overly anti-capitalist feelings and uttering “underbelly” feelings on big tech).

There’s a need to be diplomatic, imho.

I am sure that in a same event with e.g. Solid that solid representatives - whatever you think of it - are all business-like, matter-of-fact and well-dressed up. Very aware that this is also about ‘marketing’ ourselves, and not entirely ‘being’ ourselves :slight_smile:


I would like to point out - just in case - that the right-side view in side-by-side editing is NOT how it looks in Slide mode!

Slide mode is in right-side dropdown menu. Significant shortening / editing is needed. I consider current presentation more of an agreement on what content we want to show, rather than its final format.

Maybe something like this?

ActivityPub and the EU

It’s a good fit both strategically, in challenging the big US tech corporations dominance and tactically, in it being simple to implement and open to innovation as it is outside of anyone group control and agendas.

In tomorrow’s workshop let’s look at practical small steps to make this happen.

EC Tech Notes

Thursday 15 April 2021, 14:00 CEST


  • Alexandre LEAO
  • hellekin (@how)


We want to clarify the availability of ActivityPub services on the EC EDPS side or means to provision them.


  • SocialHub
  • Existing ActivityPub Infrastructure

Duration: 30 minutes

Visio link to SocialHub


Register to https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/?

@how makes a short presentation of the SocialHub to Alexandre.

Existing ActivityPub Infrastructure

What can we use?

Following Schrems 2 decisions[1] of the European Court of Justice, Robert at EDPS tried launching 2 test pilots to test Mastodon and Peertube as a way to experiment with more privacy-friendly social media.

Now trying to provision these services and secure domains under europa.eu (i.e., will not be available for the webinars and workshop).

Can use private computer and use virtual machine.

What we can do

  • use the activitypub.eu domain to provision a VM on Hetzner cloud
  • add SSH access (ed25519 keys) for participants.
  • use tmux sessions to share screen and install services[2] live during the workshop.
  • stack: nginx + certbot + either git or docker

What EDPS wants to do

Test pilots with:

  • Peertube
  • Mastodon

Main goal is to get EU institutions on board.

Action Points

What needs to be done?

  • @how reports meeting conclusions to SocialHub
  • @how provisions VM
  • Alexandre provides an SSH public key

  1. invalidates Data Protection Shield ↩︎

  2. maybe Peertube, Mastodon, Mobilizon to be discussed during the second webinar. ↩︎