2020-12-04 SocialCG Meeting

Continuing the discussion from Planning the next SocialCG meeting: when?:

December 2020


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  1. Situation with EU wrt OTF (Joost/nlnet, @Sebastian)

  2. FEP (pukkamustard, CJ)

  3. Link relations (@Sebastian, rhiaro)

Situation with EU wrt OTF

Following up the discussion on mastodon, we need to discuss about EU-supported ActivityPub outreach and funding taking over the OTF that was defunded by Trump.
We can also talk about the planned EU Interoperability Law within the “Digital Services Act”.
Described in this long thread
German Article
We need a lobby.


Following up on https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/fediverse-enhancement-proposal-fep/1059:

Link Relations

Following up on Defining alsoKnownAs
but also on the adhoc discussion in SocialCG IRC [sorry for the mess]

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Discussion about Link Relations from the Social IRC

rhiaro 10:57 sl007: to “convince the mammoth” we need to see what they would be able to do / interop with that they can’t currently

rhiaro in general, we need to churn more and more diverse AP implementations that do cool things out so implementations that fall behind are missing out

sknebel right, and that’s much more the “write down a clear proposal that a) tells people what they gain and b) how to do it (so you avoid interop hell where possible)” step

sl007 I mean it is nice if my 2 users’ websites then say to 4 million who they are. But wouldn’t it be nice if 4 million websites can tell my users who they are too?

rhiaro I think at some point sl007 you went from wanting rel=alsoKnownAs to also wanting rel=activitypub and I missed that addition - maybe because I missed the meeting on Sat (sorry again!)

rhiaro where does rel=activitypub go on a mastodon profile?

sl007 that was about naming, cause “micropub” is specified people might be more familar w. “activitypub” and my wish was

rhiaro practically speaking I"d have thought rel=inbox and rel=outbox (or the equivalent URLs) would make more sense for endpoint discovery - because those endpoints are distinct. (The former is how endpoint discovery in LDN is done, one way, so that’s already spec’d - https://www.w3.org/TR/ldn/#discovery) The micropub endpoint is specifically a posting/publishing endpoint, not a profile, which is equivalent functionality to the AP outbox

sl007 that it can link to the JSON-LD of Actor Profile or Objects


rhiaro 11:02 sl007: in faaaact if you curl -I https://rhiaro.co.uk/ I already use rel=“outbox” (in the http header, can’t remember if I put that in the html on the homepage or not)

sl007 nearly convinced

rhiaro and you’ll notice it points to the same place as my rel=micropub because that end point in theory can process both types of requests, although I think micropub is broken at the moment

sl007 agreed

rhiaro and then my clients use the rel=outbox to look for where to post AP requests to - except they don’t, cos I started refactoring the endpoint discovery out into a library years ago and never finished - but one day :smiley:

rhiaro 11:07 sl007: I might start working on this stuff again soon. I’ve recently been feeling like I might be recovering enough from burnout to think properly about these things again and actually feel interested in it once more… but baby step think properly about these things again and actually feel interested in it once more… but baby step

sl007 11:09 rhiaro Know that, chasing your toots closely :)

rhiaro 11:10 sl007: the use case for rel=outbox in mastodon profiles would be so that other (eg standalone) clients could post to a mastodon server if the person could auth with that server through that client. That would be amazing! If there was a diversity of clients (easy to make) that could use masto as the backend (hard to make). But that needs masto to also implement the AP C2S API properly, a bigger task

sl007: not sure about rel inbox though, depends how masto’s endpoints are set up for the federation stuff, not looked into it, but there might be something there

sl007: actually scratch that first part - rel=outbox is also for reading, so on a masto profile it should point to something that gives you the latest feed. That’s also useful, for a separate reader, not just clients to write

sl007 11:21 rhiaro : That could work like redaktor is implementing the coolest Open Source Client and mastodon makes it even cooler cause FOSS …

Thank You rhiaro

nightpool 16:04 fundamentally agree w “if people are resistant to using it they presumably don’t get anything out of it, and whether or not it is in a registry isn’t going to make a difference”

This would be a very easy PR for me or Gargron to accept if it adds some new functionality or interop that we didn’t have before, and a difficult one to accept if we don’t even know who’s going to use it or how

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The meeting was great. Logs here: https://www.w3.org/2020/12/04-social-minutes.html

It really focused on guiding EU regulation towards supporting fediverse technology in this case.