2020-12-11 SocialCG Meeting

Continuing the discussion from the meeting the week before
Log of the 12-04 meeting

December 2020


Join via jitsi – chat and vote in #social on freenode: Web Chat


  1. Forming a Lobby,
    the EU Digital Services Act and Interoperability Law (Joost / nlnet, Sebastian)

  2. FEP (pukkamustard, CJ)

  3. Link relations (Sebastian, rhiaro)

EU and Interoperability Law

Following up the discussion on mastodon, we need to discuss about EU-supported ActivityPub outreach and funding taking over the OTF that was defunded by Trump.
See this long thread
German Article
We need a lobby and some invited policy advocates, experts and NGOs to the meeting


Following up on https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/fediverse-enhancement-proposal-fep/1059:

Link Relations

Following up on Defining alsoKnownAs
but also on the adhoc discussion in SocialCG IRC [sorry for the mess]


I’m looking forward to this discussion!

A message from Vittorio Bertola (who spoke at IGF on interoperability) whom I invited and is planning to attend:

Hello Derek,

thanks for reaching out and apologies for the late reply, and yes, unfortunately my Mastodon account is quite dead, because of limited time and of network effects that we hope to eliminate through open interoperability :slight_smile:

It’s good if more people from the pro-openness community want to join efforts. I will be happy to join the meeting, I need to move a thing but should be able to do it.

By the way, I’d like to put together an informal group of “open messaging” SMEs, especially from Europe. The Commission is very sensitive to requests from businesses, more than to requests coming from civil society and “digital activists”, so it makes sense to repackage common requests as coming from companies. If there is any company in the Fediverse space that could fit that description, it would be good to get in touch.


Vittorio Bertola
Head of Policy & Innovation

Should we invite the folks at Framasoft?


The Commission is very sensitive to requests from businesses

Exactly this a very important point.
A second point regarding the Digital Services Act:
Yet the Commission is nearly only exposed to businesses.

it makes sense to repackage common requests as coming from companies

Sure, officially.

But we need to tackle the second point as well, et. al
( EVERYBODY :fist: ) write a short message to your favourite MEP and demand compulsory Interoperability !

Can we move FEP to a separate, dedicated meeting? I don’t want to distract from the work y’all are doing on the #1 item on the agenda, which if it went like last week’s meeting will take a significant (whole?) time, especially with the possibly-expanded list of attendees this time around.

Just want clarify around when FEP will realistically be an agenda item so I can attend the meeting (I can’t attend every single one).

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This was my proposal in the threads too:
To do it later with a break or better tomorrow (see IRC) …

Minutes from today are here: https://www.w3.org/2020/12/11-social-minutes.html

Apologies for missing some names or details, my network was dropping out.

The main takeaway was that we’d like to find a better venue under which to organise than the SocialCG - please make suggestions - ideally people who are already doing lobbying/campaigning/activism in Brussels, because the structures and timings are very complex and inside knowledge is necessary to be effective.

If folks could list the other organisations already working on related campaigning here, that would be really helpful. Several were mentioned and I didn’t catch them all. I think it’d be important to follow up with these orgs, find out how to join their meetings, and look at what work the are already doing that we could support or lend expertise to, rather than starting things from scratch ourselves.

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Having reflected a bit more, I’d like to propose:

  1. List organisations we already know about who are working adjacent to digital rights and EU policy.
  2. Find out when their meetings are and how to join them, and where any async discussions take place.
  3. Get involved, as individuals, in those: find out what their current understand of the interoperability mandate work is, and make sure they’re aware of the current state of fediverse (etc) technologies. Offer to provide them with technical advice and support for any aligned campaigning they are doing within the EU.
  4. Report back those efforts to the SocialCG, and request support from others in the CG if necessary - but don’t make this a thing that is centralised around the SocialCG as a starting point for the action. We really don’t want to be duplicating effort that is happening elsewhere, and by people who are better informed about the political side of things.
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+1 to everything @rhiaro said

[ This post is a Wiki now ]

From my fragmented memory

ISOC – Internet Society with various country chapters (often isoc.TLD)

NLnet Foundation


EDRi - European Digital Rights

See the list of NGO’s in the EDRi network to find representatives for your country/region.

C3 / CCC - Chaos Computer Club + a felt million sites within the most individual and diverse organisation I know

The Good Lobby

Digital Freedom Fund:

oh, and off course I always invited Mozilla (Katharina Borchert) too!

This is another place

and the Open Letter below also names

Especially about Policy

Digital Europe


European Policy Centre [just listened to this podcast]

and friends are digitalcourage e. V. and Amnesty Digital but they have a slightly different scope

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From the meeting notes:

cwebber2: … so the important thing is we push for an interoperable protocol but rather than a specific protocol

The topic was to create a lobby, but in the context of an activitypub meeting. Given what @cwebber said above we might give it an official, more generic name. How about The Fediverse Lobby?

Some additional thoughts and remarks:

  • We might define a set of hashtags to be used in our toots and tweets to relate to all this.
  • We might have a separate forum category here for the lobby-related stuffz (@how).
  • I tooted an idea to represent fediverse more as a unified whole, more understandable + ‘grander’-seeming to legislators.
  • In mobilizing-the-fedi efforts we might collect our toots in a wiki post, and cross-boost (here’s my HTC announcement toot).

Club de Madrid – 16 former European Leaders signed an Open Letter
“for safeguarding democracy in the new EU tech rules”

BE CAREFUL - Club de Madrid does NOT offer https :rofl: http only link:

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An Open Letter to Vestager by
EFF, EDRi, Privacy International, Open Forum Europe, Open-Xchange and others

You’re welcome to join the interop group (your account here should provide autologin).

I have set up interoperability@public.cat to pursue the discussion and match the interoperability category there.


A federated Data Infrastructure for Europe

Yes, we discussed GAIA-X on the humanetech forum some time ago: GAIA-X: Infrastructure and Data Ecosystem according to European values and standards.

And I was just about to post bad news about it in this article :frowning:

But also good news: Euractive may be interested to spread some good, healthy AP interop news :smiley: