Ostrom law - its not core to activertypub but it illustrates that we are building on foundations that are human - and thus runs counter to the nuttiness coming from the Silicon Valley bros.
Don’t think you have to explane it - people can read up if they are interested. Leave it up for a bit to spark interest, it can then come up in the Q&A and discusern
Hardin’s article was a justification for the enclosures of the commons and the systematic destruction of public space by its appropriation of “liberal” parties who would consider that since everyone is equal, then “we” have “equal” claim of “your” resources. We can still see this mindset at work with deforestation, land grab, over-fishing, etc.
In the context of the Web, the “liberals” are Silicon Valley, claiming property over the open web and raising walled gardens instead of letting users choose for themselves. This situation created the instance-based-decentralization we can see around Mastodon for example. Yesterday @cwebber raised a good point making an analogy with Email (or XMPP): when you send or receive email, the domain name of your interlocutors is hardly important, and people gather around mailing-lists, but on the Fediverse it seems to have a lot more importance, and people gather around specific instances to form communities. He would present it as a failure of the Fediverse to decentralize, but I would see it a bit differently. Contrary to email where the relation is mostly one-to-one, and indeed mailing-lists form hubs to communicate in groups, the very fabric of the Fediverse is collective, and understood as such. Gathering around an instance reflects the possibility to self-govern, to establish common rules and boundaries where people feel part of something larger than themselves, and might be a remnant of Alan Kay’s “the server is the community”.
Agreed, let’s meet tomorrow/Thursday if that works for anyone, so we still have time to update/alter things before leaving a final version on Friday. How about 11 am (I personally would not be available after 2 pm)?
I am not available on Thursday for a meeting like the previous one, unfortunately - except later on, in the evening (after 20h00 CET). If you want to make it on Thursday at 11h30, I could stay until 13h30 maximum, but it’s going to take some effort on my side to make it.
I don’t like too much evening chats but well, I think we’re still quite far from it so yeah, I can make it.
I should be available tomorrow, and most of Friday. Today not much longer.
@someonewithpc and I will be available for a meeting this Thursday and Friday. We’re really sorry we couldn’t participate in the last ones… We’ve been trying to follow this already long thread nonetheless. Can you please confirm us that the meeting link still is the BBB one that @j8ter shared in Apr 9? Thanks.
Hi everyone,
I have a really busy week, unfortunately, but I cancelled a meeting this morning to give myself a few minutes to put together some thoughts as input… and then ran out of time before I could post them here.
Rather than write a narrative or post comments to individual slides on hedgedoc, I thought I’d just show you a narrative that I think might be useful to the 99% of EC staff who are beginners and newcomers to this:
Of course, maybe next week’s audience are more expert in the field (presumably the organisers know). If so, this contribution’s probably too simplistic.
Finally:
but I just didnt have time to learn hedgedoc this morning.This link is unlisted: please dont share: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrZG_UBmVho.
Really love 
this @mathewlowry. The part in “Where do we go from here” speaks a very clear story, and also indicates how far we can go with that in a future fediverse (the as-yet mostly untapped potential).
As more domains are integrated and interoperate more deeply, the individual app boundaries start to disappear more and more, and we go more towards task-oriented designs that people tailor from an ever growing catalogue of services that exist and with them weave an intricate social fabric. As you rightly say, here we have USP’s that no centralized walled garden social media platform can easily match.
(For the rest I think there are great parts in current presentation as well, some very concrete points. I have no opinion on what level of modification to make)
Thank you @mathewlowry for this useful contribution.
I think you deploy some interesting arguments:
Still there’s a bit of a difference in the approach: you’re jumping from the read-write geekdom to locked-in walled gardens to ActivityPub, but it does not show how the standard came from the collusion of diverse alternative grassroots initiatives. The ‘bottom up’ aspect of it seems crucial to me, although I do not like the polarization between ‘top down’ and ‘bottom up’: things are more complex, and transversality appears to be a better term.
Anyway I think it’s a useful narrative in this context and some of it overlaps with the current approach.
P.S.: It’s Peertube 
we mention manipulative patterns and different incentives to not oppose one way to another in a binary framework, but to show that they are fundamentally different approaches that bring incomparable outcomes. ↩︎
Thank you for the input, Matthew! I watched it fast, as I lack the time now as well. I’m just happy it’s nothing substantially different than what we currently have - it’s a lot to do with another way of telling the story. It tackles content from the sides with evolution of the web / what is AP, so no need to overrule all presentation or anything in that direction, just integrate some content in those particular slides - this makes me very happy atm. 
PS (unrelated to Matthew): My pronouns are she / her.
I completely agree, thank you @mathewlowry for your great storytelling, I think this could be integrated perfectly into the presentation.
Regarding a final meetup, @CristinaDeLisle would any time during the day work as well on Friday? If not, let’s agree on the evening (for example around 20:30 CEST?)
Actually you just said it so much better
Correct, for two reasons:
a) Yes, you’re right that it’s so much more nuanced than “geeks vs. business”, “bottom up vs. topdown”, etc. But as I said in my post and the video, “I am massively simplifying the picture to make a point”. For the audience I’m creating content for, the details of where the standard comes from are simply too detailed. What they need to know is what the standard can do for them, today and tomorrow
b) I don’t know those details myself!
Did I not say Peertube? (checks video) Oops. But then, it was only an internal video. I hope you can use the ideas.
You’re welcome! Note the runtime, though (10 minutes). If you prefer, I can publish a polished version, and you can distribute a link to the participants before the meeting along the lines of “Need a primer on what the Fediverse is and why you should care? Watch this”.
Let me know and I’ll get myself a Peertube account
Hi Diogo, @someonewithpc, thanks for following along. We hope to use the BigBlueButton-instance already used by the W3C SocialCG-working group (would fit best), but this appears to be blocked by the VPN most EC-representatives use (probably has to do with the relatively new .social tld). We are requesting that .social be whitelisted, but don’t know when/if this is doable for the EC (unfortunately). I will keep you all posted on this, the TU Delft-BBB for now is the surefire backup.
It’s ok, no worries about the time, it could fit in the presentation and be adapted to it. I think I’m speaking slightly faster than the normal speed from the video and with adaptation, it should be ok. That time existed in any case for those slides, so it’s just about adapting the content.
I’m ok for Friday, in the second part of the day - I propose 15h00 CET, but I need to confirm this first and my internet connection is not going to be so great. If not, later on at 18h00 CET + should be ok for me, as I’m home and having great internet connection.
I could also push some things on Saturday / Sunday as well, since I’m available, but I would prefer to have everything decided by then, as mentioned previously.
I would rather avoid a meeting on Thursday during day time - I could be available after 20h00 with no efforts on my side.
This communicates well, though the story makes me uncomfortable as it’s not the story that I lived/worked at the heart of for 20 years.
It’s a good story for Eurocrats so can go along with it as long as this is a voice, rather than the voice
I echo @how in that there are grassroots histories that are missing and its from this grassroots that #activitypub actually comes from. But think for a short #EU presentation this would be an uncomfortable and confusing storey for the audience. On balance lets keep it #KISS but also not completely “whitewash” this grassroots story out, leave some hints in
But am not unhappy that we tell a more businesses friendly story as this is what they have come for.
@hamishcampbell was the story from the current slides more compelling for you? I just ask to better understand your POV and also because they kind of sound like broadly the same thing to me. Thanks again for all your help!