EC - NGI0 Liaison -- Webinars and Workshop April 2021

March 31, 2021



Indicative duration is set within parenthesis next to the sections.

Online venue is (Big Blue Button)

Webinar I – Introduction to ActivityPub


Convenor: Joost Agterhoek (@j8ter), NGI Zero Consortium / NLnet


48 participants joined the first webinar, from various European and national institutions, and the ActivityPub community. Some introduced themselves in the shared notes of the Big Blue Button[1]. The list below contains their names as they appeared in the BBB:

Screen names of participants (click to expand)
* Adam Olszewski Future Labs
* Alexandre (EDPS)
* Amy Guy (rhiaro)
* Arthur Lutz (Logilab)
* aschrijver (humanetech)
* Astor Nummelin Carlberg
* Bastien Guerry
* bengo 
* Benjamin Bellamy, Castopod
* Benoît Piédallu - MENJS
* c 
* Cristina 
* Diogo Cordeiro
* Elisavet Fakou
* Erik Kemp
* esther payne
* Fink 
* Francesco Albinati
* Fredy-linkedopenactors`.`org 
* Gijs Hillenius
* Giulia Guadagnoli (OFE)
* HamishCampbell (OMN)
* hellekin 
* hi 
* Hugo Sales
* Isa 
* Jean-Luc (EC)
* Joost Agterhoek
* Jorge 
* Jos Nickel
* Jos van den Oever (NLnet)
* Koen Glotzbach
* Mathew Lowry
* Michiel 
* Nicolas Schont
* Niko 
* Nuno Antunes
* Peter Friess
* Piotr "Petros" Skulski
* Ragnar (EC)
* rmdes 
* Ruben 
* Sander Van Dooren
* Stergios 
* Victor 
* Yassine Doghri, Castopod

Introduction (10 min)

Introduction by NGI Zero and DG CNECT about the need for federation and ActivityPub in trustworthy communication and the range of Fediverse solutions supported through the Next Generation Internet R&D initiative.

ActivityPub for Administrations NLnet NGI Zero introduction slides.pdf (83.0 KB)

ActivityPub Presentation, part 1 (30 min)

ActivityPub for Administrations

Speaker: Cristina DeLisle (@CristinaDeLisle)

simple version with only slides and speakers

ActivityPub For Administrations 2021-04-19 - PUBLIC PeerTube

Slides: ActivityPub for Administrations (2021-04-19) - HedgeDoc

Discussion (1 hour)

detailed introductions (click to expand)


Piotr Skulski, aka “Petros”.
I am involved in an “embryonic” project in Poland, involving (hopefully) some official and some unofficial actors. The goal is to create a platform cooperative, managed by Polish social grassroots initiatives and to develop fediverse as a standard for social activity here.
Today I am here on behalf of my current employer, PSNC Futurelabs. My contact mail: pskulski [a t] man . poznan . pl for more information. My fediverse contact:
I am also involved in

Joost Agterhoek
I work with the NLnet foundation, a Dutch internet charity that independently grants open source, open standards and open hardware projects to promote an open information society. We currently spearhead the NGI Zero consortium, along with hellekin and many other internet expert organizations across Europe, to fund & support projects as part of the European Commission’s Next Generation Internet-initiative. My fediverse-contact: (we should self-host, I know :wink:

Fred Hauschel (
Working on
and i may support at Smarte.Land.Regionen – Digitales Ökosystem für Landkreise in Deutschland - Fraunhofer IESE as a freelancer.
Living in Germany/Munich

Gijs Hillenius - working at the European Commission open source programme office (OSPO), kindly hosted at DG for Informatice (DIGIT, b3). I joined this new project after 14 years of writing contributions to the Commission’s open source observatory ( On the fediverse I’m (until I manage to host my own server: it should be as easy as apt install $thing. I also might use the Kazarma bridge to Matrix. That is a great idea!)

hellekin – co-founder of petites singularités, a non-profit in Belgium researching collective practices and free technologies. P.S.: is a member of NGI Zero, where I have the role of mentor. I am also an administrator of the SocialHub ( O

Jos van den Oever – NLnet employee
Interests: standards, FOSS, RDF

Mathew Lowry, comms strategist, specialised in EU online communities since 2002, founder of, which I’d like to migrate to the Fediverse and underpin with Solid. More: About | Mathew Lowry's Hub | MyHub.AI

Alessandro Rancati, I work in the European Commission . Joint Research Centre - New European Bauhaus project - New European Bauhaus: beautiful, sustainable, together.. I am a diaspora podmin but very little tech abilities. Interested to bring open source inside the New European Bauhaus.

Michiel Leenaars, Director of Strategy NLnet Foundation. Coordinator of NGI Zero.

Jean-Luc Dorel - EC DG CNECT - Programme officer for Next generation Internet; in charge inter-alia NGI0 projects

Benjamin Goering - (,
Invited Expert, W3C Social WG
self-claiming author of first public (if imperfect) implementation of ActivityPub.GitHub - gobengo/distbin: distributed social pastebin using Activitypub
Trying to make W3C Social CG renaissance happen. 2021-04-17 Social CG Meeting - #2 by bengo

rhiaro - Amy Guy
Co-chair W3C Social CG, co-author of ActivityPub, amongst other things

Diogo Cordeiro (, Hugo Sales ( – GNU social (
We work in GNU social, the eldest free social network platform for public and private communications, with a focus on accesibility used in federated social networks.
With NLnet NGIZero support, we’re trying to further differentiate GNU social by exploring the full potential of groups, among other improvements.

Hamish Campbell

Sander Van Dooren
I work as independant consultant at DIGIT D2 (ISA2 - Interoperability) of the European Commission. I build systems, often on the web making use of linked data.

Yassine Doghri (Yassine Doghri ( - PodcastIndex Social) - Lead dev and maintainer of Castopod, a federated, free and open source self-hosted platform for managing your podcasts.

Benjamin Bellamy
Father of Castopod, an open-source podcast hosting platform for both RSS and ActivityPub, supported by NLnet.
CEO and Founder of Ad Aures, a company which provides Contextual Monetization for Podcasts.

Adam Olszewski – I like people. I initiate consortia and ensure funding for applied IT projects in Poland. I am employed at a public applied IT R&D (200+ EC projects). I lead open IT labs and coworking space in Poznan . I was member of Future Internet Forums of the EC (now turned into NGI). I am interested to engage our resources and experience towards solving local social issues & repurposing industrial/medical tools towards social purposes.

Arthur Lutz - Logilab
User and hoster of mastodon, peertube, castopod, funkwhale, mobilizon, lemmy, pixelfed. Following this space since statusnet, identica, gnu-social, pumpio. Working for Logilab which is involved in SemanticWeb technologies.

Lutin Discret - Manage grant program in “Code Lutin”, a french cooperative company. We sponsored Mastodon, Fedilab and mainly Peertube. I’m interested in funding.
Grant program: #mécénatcodelutin - libre-entreprise Mastodon
Also on Matrix

Erik Kemp - Student CybSec & Privacy @ University of Twente
Admin of, in contact with academics from different backgrounds on professionalising the fediverse presence of the UT.

Ragnar Bergström - EC DG CNECT - Next Generation Internet, Team Leader

Koen Glotzbach - interested in & volunteering for Open Source (projects). Communication coordinator & Webmaster European Schoolnet.

Arnold Schrijver (, moderator at SocialHub, founder and facilitator of Humane Tech Community, the independent grassroots community to the Center for Humane Technology founded by Tristan Harris (The Social Dilemma). We fight tech harms and “Promote Solutions that Improve Wellbeing, Freedom and Society”. I am a passionate FOSS and Fediverse advocate, and tech guy.

full conversation in the chat panel (click to expand)
[09:04] Joost Agterhoek: Hi Benjamin! Good morning
[09:05] bengo: Hello. Good morning to you too.
[09:09] Cristina: Hello!
[09:09] Joost Agterhoek: Good morning Cristina
[09:09] Cristina: Good morning! :)
[09:09] Cristina: Joost, do you think you could make me presenter for one sec? I want to test something really fast
[09:09] Joost Agterhoek: Of course
[09:10] Joost Agterhoek: Done!
[09:11] Cristina: Was it looking ok? I've used S this time and I wanted to confirm that you can see slides with the presentation :)
[09:12] Joost Agterhoek: We were also seeing the speaker mode screen in front of the slides, do you have a second screen? You could drag the speaker mode (s) screen there maybe?
[09:16] Cristina: It seems not :)
[09:20] Joost Agterhoek: Good morning everyone! Thanks for joining. The webinar will start in about 40 minutes, plenty of time to get a coffee or read some emails first :)
[09:21] Piotr "Petros" Skulski: Hello everybody. This is my first time here so I decided to connect early and make sure it all works.
[09:24] Joost Agterhoek: Of course, feel free to try everything out (microphone, webcam if you want to).
[09:25] Joost Agterhoek: Giula, hi, I see your microphone is on but I have not yet heard you speak, is that correct? Just to check
[09:26] a wonderful good morning to all
[09:27] Joost Agterhoek: Thank you, great to see so many people in here already!
[09:28] Joost Agterhoek: My regards to everyone at Fairkom Fred :)
[09:33] bengo: Remembering another good presentation by Cristina at ActivityPub Conf 2019 in Prague.
[09:34] @Joost is passed on ;-)
[09:40] Piotr "Petros" Skulski: Do we have a space for self-introductions? I would be happy  to write/say few sentences, but I do not want to intrude.
[09:40] bengo: I'd enjoy hearing introductions.
[09:41] bengo: I hear Joost at a good volume now.
[09:43] bengo: 12:43am PDT so I have decaf coffee 🤣
[09:44] Joost Agterhoek: Sharing my webcam so there is a face to go with the name :)
[09:44] hellekin: catching up with the SocialHub. I see you had a busy weekend
[09:45] Cristina: Indeed :)
[09:45] Joost Agterhoek: Thanks Piotr! Or should I say Petros?
[09:46] bengo: Have been thinking a bit recently (inspired by others) about how we can show up as 3D Avatars in a fedi-meta-verse. :) (similar to , but federated).
[09:46] Piotr "Petros" Skulski: Petros is very fine. :-)
[09:46] Jean-Luc (EC): Hello everyone!
[09:48] Gijs Hillenius: Good morning
[09:48] hellekin: Goede morgen Gijs, bonjour Jean-Luc
[09:48] hellekin: Gijs you have a lot of noise
[09:48] Gijs Hillenius: Hello Hellekin! Long time no see!
[09:48] Gijs Hillenius: thanks! I always make a lot of noise :-)
[09:49] Gijs Hillenius: I might switch machines..
[09:49] hellekin: Yeah, you know, confinment ;]
[09:49] Gijs Hillenius: I will start a second Debian machine, and switch
[09:50] Gijs Hillenius: back in a minute
[09:51] Joost Agterhoek: For everyone who joined recently, if you want to, you can make a brief introduction in the shared notes (above the names of everyone present) so we all know who we're talking to :)
[09:55] Michiel: Good morning everyone
[09:56] Michiel: Timezones are still a thing
[09:56] Jos van den Oever (NLnet): good morning! looking forward to the talks
[09:56] Joost Agterhoek: Indeed they are :)
[10:00] hellekin: I would suggest turning off cameras as well during the presentation
[10:00] aschrijver (humanetech): Good morning, everyone. Wishing you all a great event.
[10:00] Piotr "Petros" Skulski: Absolutely
[10:01] Giulia Guadagnoli (OFE): Good morning everyone!
[10:01] Michiel: It also saves bandwidth for those folks that are on wifi or xG
[10:01] Francesco Albinati: Good morning!
[10:02] Alexandre (EDPS): Good morning!
[10:02] Joost Agterhoek: Good morning, thank you all for joining us! I suggest we wait for a couple of minutes and start around 10:05 to make sure everyone is here
[10:02] Victor: Hi everybody !
[10:03] hellekin: Please mute yourself during the presentations!
[10:08] HamishCampbell (OMN): made it :)
[10:11] rmdes: Hi all
[10:12] Niko: Cant hear you Cristina
[10:12] Michiel: I cannot hear Christina just yet
[10:12] rmdes: same
[10:12] Michiel: +31 15 201 0061
[10:12] Michiel: Then enter 97665 as the conference PIN number.
[10:12] rmdes: no sound
[10:12] Elisavet Fakou: Same
[10:12] Mathew Lowry: same
[10:13] Michiel: There is a phone number to dial in
[10:13] Koen Glotzbach: I had to click 'Join audio conference' (next to disable/enable webcam)
[10:13] Koen Glotzbach: (in order to hear anything)
[10:13] HamishCampbell (OMN): thinkpads have a mic mute buttion try that
[10:13] rmdes: we can hear the host just fine
[10:13] rmdes: just not the current speaker
[10:14] HamishCampbell (OMN): on the keybord
[10:14] Michiel: Go in and out?
[10:15] Amy Guy (rhiaro): It's not a webinar without technical difficulties
[10:15] Mathew Lowry: ;)
[10:15] Michiel: "Can you hear me" is the new "Hello World"
[10:16] Francesco Albinati: "you are muted" too
[10:16] HamishCampbell (OMN): try the F4 button
[10:17] Cristina: I don't know what happened, we did tests and it was working perfectly
[10:17] Amy Guy (rhiaro): Cristina, you don't have a hardware mute on your headset mic do you?
[10:17] esther payne: Could it be a setting on mute, my FF kept muting itself .
[10:18] HamishCampbell (OMN): sounds good
[10:19] Niko: Yes!
[10:19] rmdes: Yes
[10:19] bengo: Yay!
[10:19] Michiel: \o/
[10:19] bengo: Excited to hear from you, Cristina.
[10:19] Diogo Cordeiro: :)
[10:19] hellekin: yes it is :)
[10:20] Joost Agterhoek: Works fine, great! :D
[10:22] bengo: Good ol'd days
[10:27] bengo: *SocialWG , which closed in 2018, and now shepherded by SocialCG
[10:28] Joost Agterhoek: Community of ActivityPub-authors and fediverse-developers is organized (among others) on SocialHub ->
[10:29] aschrijver (humanetech): See an overview of many more ActivityPub applications on Fediverse Party:
[10:30] Joost Agterhoek: And check out an informative overview here as well:
[10:30] aschrijver (humanetech): Three are even more in various stages of development. For a full list you can consult that AP Watchlist:
[10:35] Michiel: Thanks Cristina!
[10:35] Gijs Hillenius: Like the slides! can you give us the link, please?
[10:35] Thanks, nice introduction !
[10:35] Jos van den Oever (NLnet): 👏👏👏 great overview
[10:35] Benjamin Bellamy, Castopod: Thank you Christina!
[10:35] bengo: Amazing presentation, Cristina. Thank you so much for you hard work on this presentation and over the years.
[10:35] Piotr "Petros" Skulski: Great!
[10:35] HamishCampbell (OMN): good
[10:36] Amy Guy (rhiaro): That was great, thanks Cristina!
[10:36] Gijs Hillenius: aplausse!
[10:36] Yassine Doghri, Castopod: Thank you Cristina!
[10:36] Diogo Cordeiro: it was great, thank you :)
[10:36] bengo: (and thanks others on socialhub et al who may have helped as well)
[10:36] hellekin: Gijs: we'll put the slides shortly on the SocialHub.
[10:37] bengo: "The Medium is the Message" -> The Humans are the Medium
[10:38] aschrijver (humanetech): A wonderful and clear presentation. Cristina!
[10:40] Gijs Hillenius: the freedombox (with a hardware manufacturer form Bulgaria)
[10:40] Mathew Lowry: Who's here from DG COMM?
[10:41] Gijs Hillenius: I think DG Comm will join in one of the next sessions
[10:41] Elisavet Fakou: It's me working in the Social Media team of DGCOMM as a Data Analyst
[10:42] Gijs Hillenius:
[10:42] Jos van den Oever (NLnet): can we fight fake news with the fediverse?
[10:42] HamishCampbell (OMN): yes, as the moderation is local so scales
[10:42] bengo: Some might be interested in work that Chris Weber, an author of ActivityPub, has been working on for a bit of 'next generation fediverse'.
[10:43] Jos van den Oever (NLnet): spritely is very interesting indeed
[10:43] Piotr "Petros" Skulski: I am very much into exploring connections between fediverse and NetCommons.  Anyone?
[10:43] bengo: Someone mentioned operational costs. IMO these will be lowered via
[10:44] Arthur Lutz (Logilab): Jos : "Decentralized Social Networks vs. The Trolls (ActivityPub Conference 2020)" might be of some inspiration
[10:45] Jos van den Oever (NLnet): Arthur: thanks for the link, i'll watch it. I notice that it is on the fediverse :-)
[10:45] Erik Kemp: @Jos Yes. From a university perspective, I envision that all accounts on our server are linked to someone institutional email address, so you disencourage spam and trolling as we stimulate social behaviour (interacting with friends & connections) instead of antisocial behaviour (current antisocial networks optimising for clicks, so friction and extreme content (including fake news))
[10:47] Jos van den Oever (NLnet): so like e.g. scientific journals, fediverse communities might grow a reputation
[10:47] hellekin: NGI0 is providing security audits to granted projects.
[10:48] Erik Kemp: Exactly. In the light of Zuck's new Insta4kids plans I also expect the fediverse proposing alternatives, such as allow-list based federated social networks for schools.
[10:49] aschrijver (humanetech): @Piotr re:fediverse and NetCommons. Apart from this event discussion, this is a very intersting topic to discuss further on our SocialHub forum, and I invite you to broach the subject.
[10:49] Gijs Hillenius: harrass me via chat
[10:49] Piotr "Petros" Skulski: @aschrijver I am very new here, so some guidance will be in order.
[10:50] bengo: Relevant to moderation or anti-trolling.
[10:50] Jos van den Oever (NLnet): @Gijs: are there steps for joining the fediverse in the EU? e.g. a mastodon instance?
[10:50] Jos van den Oever (NLnet): @Gijs: i mean will the EC join the fediverse in some form?
[10:50] Gijs Hillenius: O dang it Jos, how could I forget. We're looking into this!
[10:51] Gijs Hillenius: Not an easy thing to "test" .. (you know, an internal test is eh, a bit limited)
[10:51] Mathew Lowry: thanks
[10:51] Gijs Hillenius: but there is a lot of folks looking at this (we're not entirely there yet)
[10:52] Jos van den Oever (NLnet): so what is the largest public institution (testing or production) on the fediverse atm?
[10:53] Jos van den Oever (NLnet): of course an EC instance would be a target instantly, so should be done sensibly
[10:53] Gijs Hillenius: /hides under a rock
[10:53] Gijs Hillenius: listen to Alexander indeed !
[10:54] Piotr "Petros" Skulski: It seems I just lost most of the chat history idk how. Anyone would be so nice to drop me a save?
Thank you.
[10:54] hellekin: Jos: I guess this is the French Education network's Peertube that was deployed last year.
[10:54] Gijs Hillenius: there is social.bund
[10:54] Gijs Hillenius: and there is a similar initiative in France
[10:55] Gijs Hillenius: we have Bastien here, who could comment on the French initiative
[10:55] HamishCampbell (OMN): its important to look at the fediver as scaling downwards which is a non-obvious thing. And it builds out “trust” as its security model which agen is non-obvious.
[10:55] hellekin: Bastien from Etalab is here, and Nicolas & Benoît from French National Education
[10:55] Welcome to FediverseWebinars!For help on using BigBlueButton see these (short) tutorial videos.To join the audio bridge click the phone button.  Use a headset to avoid causing background noise for others.To join this meeting by phone, dial:  +31 15 201 0061Then enter 97665 as the conference PIN number.
[11:37] bengo: Universal Federation much bigger than one protocol
[11:38] Marcin Mikołajczak: And I think itʼs fair to only consider OStatus and ActivityPub a part of the Fediverse
[11:38] Gijs Hillenius: if matrix could do / use/ work with activitypub  that would be great
[11:38] rmdes: Same for Pixelfed, you choose who to follow, what instance follow you etc..
[11:38] Michiel: The Freenet approach is interesting to learn from
[11:39] Marcin Mikołajczak: The PeerTube allow list thing is just for discoverability, not for comments, likes etc
[11:39] rmdes: distributed federated automated moderation
[11:39] bengo: Matrix is probably a 'better' protocol from a federation/security perspective. But, it is less powerful otherwise because I think it isn't based on RDF/LD
[11:39] hellekin:
[11:39] torresjrjr: To stress, PeerTube is federation-by-choice by design because of the size of video compared to textual posts.
[11:39] Marcin Mikołajczak: It keeps kicking me out
[11:40] torresjrjr: And also video is a much more diverse and expressive medium, with the potential to be more graphic.
[11:40] Jos van den Oever (NLnet): @bengo: not being RDF and doing specification in a smaller organization might have helped with that
[11:40] rmdes: You can use the peertube "sepia search" to search across the peertube "vers"
[11:41] bengo: Governance via ?
[11:41] rmdes: we need a way to have bottom-up rating system allowing us to have better content discovery on the fediverse
[11:41] Michiel: Also part of NGI Zero:
[11:42] bengo: @Jos I agree. tradeoffs
[11:42] Sander Van Dooren: I hope I can comment some more next time, at the moment I have no idea what ActivityPub covers. But I have been building linked data based application in the EC for the last few years, including a linked data / Drupal integration.
[11:43] rmdes:
[11:43] bengo: In practice, I don't think there's any reason a given software service can't implement *both* ActivityPub and Matrix. It's all
[11:43] Jos van den Oever (NLnet): @Sander what application is that?
[11:43] aschrijver (humanetech): @Sander Van Dooren that is very interesting. AP is a Linked Data standard and in next webinar we will address some of that. As such we are complementary to e.g. the Solid Project and some projects already combine both technologies.
[11:43] torresjrjr: I think since there is a precedent set for localised moderation, there is no need to worried about politicised moderation. It is the same with email servers.
[11:44] torresjrjr: The EU has mail servers of their own. They (I imagine) moderate their own servers. This is not political.
[11:45] rmdes: @Sander :
[11:45] bengo: EC should create
Let's give a chance for interoperate with,, :) (et al)
A symbolic performance, if nothing else.
[11:45] Mathew Lowry: It is not the same as mail servers. The hateful content the EC receives online has to be experienced to be believed.
[11:45] Mathew Lowry: (speaking from experience here)
[11:46] Sander Van Dooren: @jos , basically we wrote a db layer (SPARQL ORM) for Drupal that abstracts all RDF aspects in the DB layer. We needed a SPARQL endpoint so...
[11:46] Jos van den Oever (NLnet): @torresjrjr mail has spam too and what comes in via mail is not automatically publicly visible under an EC domain
[11:46] aschrijver (humanetech): @Sander Van Dooren, some  combined Solid + AP projects are and and
The latter project is doing great NGI0 funded research ( )
[11:46] Sander Van Dooren: It is ontology agnostic, so you can configure it to do any sort of mapping
[11:46] -: @rmdes bottom-up rating could be supported by Freenet (person based) or by an object-based system like Credence:
[11:46] rmdes: interesting
[11:47] Jos van den Oever (NLnet): @Sander interesting, so joinup publishes rdf?
[11:47] Sander Van Dooren:
[11:47] -: If you want a short overview of the approaches already used in the height of p2p networks and you speak German, you can find the basics in a 4h lecture at
[11:47] bengo: @Sander awesome
[11:48] Sander Van Dooren: @aschrijver @rmdes thanks for the resources!
[11:48] Mathew Lowry: good point
[11:48] Piotr "Petros" Skulski: Yes
[11:49] rmdes: EC/EP should use COFOE to attract citizens on a set of fediverse like tools
[11:50] Alexandre (EDPS): I have a practical question: Does anyone know if the mastodon code has been audited for security?
[11:50] Mathew Lowry: @nuno, true. It's not as if most EC social media teams actually interact much anyway
[11:50] Nuno Antunes: very true—though something we're strongly trying to change
[11:51] Michiel: W3C ActivityPub is essentially being part of the World Wide Web
[11:51] bengo: good idea hellekin
[11:51] torresjrjr: An outward-posts-only fediverse instance is a great initial configuration for any organisation.
[11:52] aschrijver (humanetech):
[11:52] Niko: > Does anyone know if the mastodon code has been audited for security?

It is constantly audited, tested and used by a large number of people. I also see that there is financial support on Mastodon so i guess it makes a great project to continue on
[11:52] torresjrjr: As in, an instance for users of the organisation.
[11:53] Alexandre (EDPS): Thanks @Niko!
[11:54] Erik Kemp: As Radically Open Security is a funder of NLNet, they would probably love to do security audits of something like mastodon :)
[11:54] esther payne: @Niko, theres also an understanding that mastodon is a public network, so as Hamish was saying it more social than secure.
[11:54] bengo: Mastodon is only *one* 'app' on the fediverse network. So you can use another 'app' that filters away anything with a teenage Flesch-Kincaid reading level. Your prerogative.
[11:54] Michiel: Joining a 3rd party mastodon server is different from having implementing ActivityPub
[11:54] rmdes: you can see mastodon expenses on their OC profile :
[11:54] Amy Guy (rhiaro): There is something to be said for cultures across instances, but the fediverse is *very* much more diverse than that. Just like there are subcommunities on twitter
[11:54] ActivityPub is not only social media, there are a lot of things, that can de done with the actor model.
It gets exciting when we map interfaces between systems via activities.
[11:54] Michiel: I would love to follow e.g. policy timelines
[11:55] Mathew Lowry: I wouldn't say the EC publishing on mastodon would be see as intimidating. I think it would be welcomed as a vote of confidence in the future ;)
[11:55] HamishCampbell (OMN): :)
[11:55] rmdes: +1
[11:55] Michiel: It is a specification that any web site can implement
[11:55] hellekin: Yes, there's nothing preventing the EC to forward what they post on Twitter to the Fediverse. At least I could follow that ;)
[11:55] Mathew Lowry: yup
[11:55] Jos Nickel: @Nuno: Some data protection officers, some federal states in Germany started trying this out. Example:
[11:56] Gijs Hillenius: +1
[11:56] torresjrjr: I think the *tone* of a particular instance is very malleable. The instance owners have great freedom in the tone they set, and I would not say they are invading an existing community. There are already numerous subcultures in existance.
[11:56] Koen Glotzbach: > I would love to follow e.g. policy timelines
That's a great idea. Like an activitypub version of legislative train schedule
[11:56] rmdes: imagine having using mastodon/pleroma or another, would be huge!
[11:56] rmdes: = crossposting done right
[11:57] Jos van den Oever (NLnet): @Koen or with federated git :-)
[11:57] HamishCampbell (OMN): yep this is interesting and human, Q. do they talk back
[11:57] Jean-Luc (EC): Radically Open Security is a partner in NGI0
[11:57] Nuno Antunes: Thank you everyone for sharing your perspectives—putting many of my concerns to rest. :)
[11:57] bengo: This chat also highlights something else an increasingly 'chatty' fediverse needs. Social curation or recommender systems (like FB uses for News Feed, but privacy respected). Needs a lot of funding.
[11:57] aschrijver (humanetech): yes, that is a good point. You can via Linked Data vocabularies extend to any app / business domain. Like e.g. ForgeFed is a protocol extension to collaborate on software projects (it federates between code forges). The DAPSI funded FedeProxy is building software that brings coders together across the entire internet (so that helps break the FOMO walled garden network effects of Github). PS. FedeProxy might be renamed to CodersGlue.
[11:57] Nuno Antunes: I would say the EC joining the fediverse is a given at this point, it's just a matter of how and how its presence will evolve with time
[11:58] Michiel: Thanks to  all the speakers
[11:58] Jos van den Oever (NLnet): great session with nice new info
[11:58] Jos Nickel: HamishCampbell: not really. But here a more low-level authority:
[11:58] -: @bengo: I much prefer the original twitter version: defining recommendations by whom you follow and what they boost.
[11:58] esther payne: I couldnt see the shared notes at all
[11:59] rmdes: the entire EC/EP/Council twitter account set could be replicated on the fediverse, in a instance hosted by the EC, and from there, articulate broadcasting to the fediverse with a consistent approach
[11:59] Sander Van Dooren: Thank you, looking forward to next session, I have some reading to do! :)
[11:59] Michiel: esther: you need to click on the text shared notes
[11:59] Jos van den Oever (NLnet): @- that's still possible with activitypub
[11:59] -: Thank you for the webinar!
[11:59] aschrijver (humanetech): @ester payne recordings will become available. We will also post them to a PeerTube instance.
[11:59] esther payne: @michiel I get an error message. and if i refresh it chucks me out.
[12:00] esther payne: Thanks @aschrijver
[12:00] Michiel: I think social media as a silo separate from the web presence is only due to the fact that the large social media companies are proprietary
[12:00] hellekin: Nuno I'm convinced that using an internal network you could push up interesting contents you want to share more widely through COMM, and they would forward to the Fediverse. In addition to what's already published to Twitter and Facebook, and that is not available to people outside these platforms. Having the EU on the Fediverse would certainly drive more institutions in and out of those platforms. As the presentation mentioned: the European Union would cement their role in defining the Internet for Users.
[12:00] Solid Project Technical Reports (work items):
[12:00] -: @Michiel: It think social media is separate because moderation has a high cost
[12:00] Arthur Lutz (Logilab): Congratulations to the organizers and speakers.
[12:00] Michiel: It really fits within the normal web presence.
[12:00] rmdes: +1 to helekin
[12:00] Arthur Lutz (Logilab): 👋
[12:00] Amy Guy (rhiaro): Thanks all!
[12:01] Jos van den Oever (NLnet): i agree that it would be great to start seeing fediverse icons on EC websites
[12:01] Yassine Doghri, Castopod: Thanks for the session!
[12:01] esther payne: thanks
[12:01] Nuno Antunes: Thank you again, everyone!
[12:01] rmdes: Thanks all
[12:01] Mathew Lowry: Thanks for the session!
[12:01] -: thank you!
[12:01] Koen Glotzbach: Thank you all for the interesting insights
[12:01] Gijs Hillenius: T  h a n k s ! very nice workshop!
[12:01] aschrijver (humanetech): I really enjoyed the conversation here. Thank you everyone!
[12:01] Jos Nickel: @Hamish: many data protection officers in Germany engage. 
Example with re-toots etc.
Because the audience is still very nerdy :-) 
so there is a natural topic overlap. These experiences are then shared.
[12:01] torresjrjr: Thank you!
[12:01] Nicolas Schont: thnaks
[12:01] Diogo Cordeiro: Thanks!
[12:01] Piotr "Petros" Skulski: See you!
[12:01] Gijs Hillenius: let
[12:01] hellekin: Thank you all!
[12:01] Gijs Hillenius: let's get this organised at the EC
[12:01] Alexandre (EDPS): Thanks!!
[12:01] Jos van den Oever (NLnet): ctrl-d
[12:01] Jean-Luc (EC): enjoyed it! looking foward to the next session
[12:01] bengo: Great work Cristina, EC, SocialHub, et al
[12:02] Fink: Thanks!
[12:03] Joost Agterhoek: Thank you again everybody! In particular DG CNECT for the initiative, everyone from SocialHub for the massive collaboration on the presentation and of course to Cristina for presenting it so concisely. Looking forward to next week, see everyone there!
[12:03] Benjamin Bellamy, Castopod: Thany you all!!!
[12:05] aschrijver (humanetech): @Nuno in reaction to your impression of Fediverse. In general how you experience is much more dependent on the Followers and Following of people in your own timeline.
[12:06] Nuno Antunes: Indeed, it seems quite clear that my perception was perhaps too negative
[12:06] aschrijver (humanetech): The global timelines are a mix of everything, and for many not really interesting (too much). Myself.. I only use my personal timeline, and this is what most people typically do.
[12:06] hellekin: Nuno would you like to continue this conversation on the SocialHub?
[12:07] hellekin: Actually I stopped looking at the Federated timeline because it goes too fast ;)
[12:07] aschrijver (humanetech): If you newly sign up to an account, for instance, your timelines stays empty. This is very different to Twitter where the algorithm starts to 'engage' you immediately.
[12:07] hellekin: I only follow people and tags
[12:08] Nuno Antunes: from your experience, is it common for accounts (institutional or not) to have a one-way communication?
[12:08] Nuno Antunes: also, happy to continue the chat elsewhere if more convenient to you :)
[12:08] hellekin: You can, some news outlets do that
[12:08] aschrijver (humanetech): It depends. The culture is a bit different than on traditional social media, where it invites more of a 2-way interaction.
[12:09] Nuno Antunes: I'm thinking for example of automatically duplicating twitter posts on Mastodon. I noticed there were some accounts doing that, but is this generally seen as good practice?
[12:09] aschrijver (humanetech): Many org accounts start as simple announcement things, and then later on the person behind the feed starts to 'shine through' :)
[12:09] hellekin: You can signup at

Following the #fediverse category should be not overwhelming and we discuss more the social research there, so policy is welcome.
[12:10] aschrijver (humanetech): Duplicating twitter to mastodon is not a really good strategy. At least for reaching out to the audience. Many ppl don't want to see Twitter content.
[12:10] aschrijver (humanetech): The other way round would be more interesting (at least for me, because I don't really operate my Humanetech account on Twitter. I favor the fediverse)
[12:11] hellekin: That is, you can duplicate the content, but if you mention twitter accounts, the Fediversity ends there. Announcements are good though.
[12:13] Nuno Antunes: I see
[12:15] hellekin: Regarding your audience, there are certainly more people on T or F, but the audience you would be reaching out on the Fediverse is actually interested in hearing your voice. This is targeted audience.
[12:18] ISA² has a lot of potential when you think of federation ;-)
[12:18] aschrijver (humanetech): Yes ISA²  also has a lot of linked data related things already going that would be great complements to the AP standards maybe.
[12:27] aschrijver (humanetech): @Fredy I recently added Linked Open Actors to the delightful-linked-data candidates to be added :)

Great project.

Conclusion (5 min)

Conclusion and bridge to next session.

Webinar II – ActivityPub In-depth and Demo’s



This week the number of participants reached 56, up 8 from last week! Thank you for your interest.

participants introductions (click to expand)

Jean-Luc Dorel - Programme Officer at DG CNECT in charge of NGI0 Projects

Tanguy Fardet - Researcher, Fediverse user

Gijs Hillenius - open source programme office at the European Commission

Joost Agterhoek - Policy & technology advisor with the NLnet foundation, a Dutch internet charity, spearheading the NGI Zero grant program for open source software & open hardware to promote privacy & trust enhancing tech & open search and discovery.

Piotr “Petros” Skulski (Poznan, Poland)
I work with PSNC FutureLabs ( and run social projects via
General line of work: Fediverse, NetCommons and decentralised societies in the context of the All-Crisis.

Fredy - SoftwareEngineer

Working on

Member of

Mario Vavti (Hubzilla) developer and project coordinator.

Michiel Leenaars - director of strategy at NLnet foundation and coordinator of NGI Zero.

Arthur Lutz (Logilab)
Fediverse User & Hoster, Mastodon, Pixelfed, Funkwhale, Peertube, Mobilizon, Lemmy. Working as devops/developer for a company involved with SemanticWeb technologies.

Roland Alton - - provider of open source communication tools

Yury Bulka [undltd] - a regular Fediverse user, artist and programmer. Doing my little contribution in raising awareness about digital privacy and surveillance [capitalism] in Ukraine by writing articles and giving presentations.
~ ∿ und̷e̷l̷ě̷t̷e̷d̷ ( - La Quadrature du Net - Mastodon - Media Fédéré ~
~ https://ጮ.cc/ ~

Arnold Schrijver (Humane Tech Now ( - Mastodon), moderator at SocialHub, founder and facilitator of Humane Tech Community (, the independent grassroots community to the Center for Humane Technology ( founded by Tristan Harris (The Social Dilemma). We fight tech harms and “Promote Solutions that Improve Wellbeing, Freedom and Society”. I am a passionate FOSS and Fediverse advocate, and tech guy.

Calum Mackervoy
Fediverse user, freelance developer, interested in semantic web development. Organise in co-operatives

pukkamustard Working on openEngiadina - a NGI0 supported project to develop an ActivityPub and Semantic Web based system for local knowledge.

Dr. Robert Riemann
European Data Protection Supervisor
Technology and Privacy Unit
working topics: distributed networks, websites, mobile apps

Sebastian Lasse
Co-Organiser of ActivityPub Conf and working on redaktor - a fully conformant ActivityPub client and server with all the types (yay!) - desperately seeking for public funding (8 people team)

Nuno Antunes (EC)
External service provider for the European Commission’s DG COMM Social Media Team, helping with social media performance data analysis, social listening and social media research.

Erik Kemp

  • Student Cyber Security @ UTwente (specialising in digital sovereignty & digital inequality)
  • Admin of

Pierre de Lacroix (pdelacroix)
Working on Kazarma, a bridge for ActivityPub and Matrix protocols.

Yassine Doghri (https: // ) - Lead dev and maintainer of Castopod, a federated, free and open source self-hosted platform for managing your podcasts.

Benjamin Bellamy Father of Castopod, an open-source podcast hosting platform for both RSS and ActivityPub, supported by NLnet. CEO and Founder of Ad Aures, a company which provides Contextual Monetization for Podcasts.

Alessandro Rancati
JRC - European Commission
Design for policy at the New European Bauhaus

Diogo Cordeiro ( – GNU social (
We work in GNU social, the eldest free social network platform for public and private communications, with a focus on accesibility used in federated social networks.
With NLnet NGIZero support, we’re trying to further differentiate GNU social by exploring the full potential of groups, among other improvements.

Sander Van Dooren
Consultant at the ISA2 programme (Interoperability unit of DG DIGIT, EC). I help creating data driven applications, often using linked data.

rita (aka titi)
fedi user and moderator
(Barcelona, Catalunya, Spain)
I am involved in Fedicat (the fedi in catalan)

m3me (Mat Mytka)
Chief Platform Officer @ Greater Than X (
Co-founder @ Greater Than Learning (
Interested in building on ActivityPub to create a federation of communities of practice and action to design more trustworthy products, services and organisations.

Tobi ( Fancy Media and Communication)
Running Mastodon and other services for schools and institutions (UK, Germany, Algeria) looking forward to integrate ActivityPub in various ways to keep students connected and creating a collaborative teaching/learning experience.

Chris Fanning @tuttle
I’ve been running nodes since 2011, back before the event. So pleased to see the Fediverse mature. Who would have ever thought!

Hamish Campbell

NGI0 mentor, co-founder of petites singularités, admin of the SocialHub |

Henrik Biering
Previously focused on user centric identity management. Now rather on discovery methods that are superior to the GAFAM methods, e.g.
Wondering why discovery seems to be neglected by all projects claiming to aim for decentralization.

Christine Lemmer Webber
ActivityPub co-author/co-editor, Spritely, etc
Christine Lemmer-Webber ( - Octodon

Paul Fuxjäger
based in Vienna, working on resilience of AP networks, mastodon-twitter bridging, nomadic/decentralized identity and a federation of local citywide community networks, very interested in collaboration
Paul Fuxjaeger ( -

full conversation in the chat panel (click to expand)

[09:02] Joost Agterhoek: Good morning everyone! Before we kick things off at 10, feel free to make a brief introduction in the Shared Notes (above the users window) and join the Public Chat to share your thoughts. Looking forward to your ideas!
[09:11] Yury Bulka [undltd]: Hi!
[09:11] Yury Bulka [undltd]: Thanks
[09:26] Arthur Lutz (Logilab): Good morning
[09:26] Joost Agterhoek: Good morning!
[09:46] Jean-Luc (EC): good morning!
[09:51] hi there
[09:51] tuttle: good morning
[09:52] Tanguy Fardet: He’s not moderator
[09:53] Tanguy Fardet: Good morning everyone
[09:53] Christine Lemmer Webber: hi! :slight_smile:
[09:53] Joost Agterhoek: I already see people making their introductions in the Shared Notes, great! It’s the button above the user list, feel free to leave a brief description of what you do and your interest/involvement in ActivityPub & the fediverse
[09:54] Piotr “Petros” Skulski: Morning.
[09:55] Gijs Hillenius: Hello all!
[09:55] Mario (Hubzilla): Good Morning!
[09:56] Piotr “Petros” Skulski: Did anybody hear my mic check?
[09:56] Tanguy Fardet: yes
[09:56] Piotr “Petros” Skulski: thx
[09:57] Luis C. Busquets Pérez: Hello all
[09:57] Joost Agterhoek: Hi pukkamustard, great that you could join us!
[09:58] Christine Lemmer Webber: Yes, fantastic to see pukkamustard here :slight_smile:
[09:58] Joost Agterhoek: Hi Mario, hi Benjamin, Fredy
[09:58] Benjamin Bellamy, Castopod: Hello!
[09:59] pukkamustard: Good morning! Glad to be here.
[09:59] gertv: 'mornin
[10:00] Welcome to FediverseWebinars!For help on using BigBlueButton see these (short) tutorial videos.To join the audio bridge click the phone button. Use a headset to avoid causing background noise for others.To join this meeting by phone, dial: +31 15 201 0064Then enter 48618 as the conference PIN number.
[10:00] Arthur Lutz (Logilab): Good morning
[10:01] Sebastian: moin moin everybody
[10:02] titi: Good morning :slight_smile:
[10:02] Yassine Doghri, Castopod: Good morning
[10:02] Calum Mackervoy: good morning :slight_smile:
[10:02] Mathew Lowry: Morning everyone
[10:02] Alexandre: Good morning!
[10:03] Tanguy Fardet: yes
[10:03] Michiel Leenaars: Yes
[10:03] Mathew Lowry: yes, visible
[10:07] Tanguy Fardet:
[10:08] hellekin: NLnet; About NGI Zero

NGI0 - D2.1 - Best Practices Resources for Free Software
[10:09] Tanguy Fardet:
[10:11] titi: :slight_smile:
[10:12] Roland Alton (fairkom): Could somebody please share the link of the recording of the 19 APR meeting (so that I can re-share it).
[10:12] Joost Agterhoek: Of course, see it here → EC - NGI0 Liaison -- Webinars and Workshop April 2021 - SocialHub
[10:14] Arthur Lutz (Logilab): Roland : ActivityPub For Administrations (with chat) 2021-04-19 - ConfTube
[10:17] aschrijver (humanetech): Related to the Chris’ talk about communities is our ongoing discussion about “Community has no Boundary” paradigm: Standardizing on a common Community domain as AP extension?

On top of that concepts such as Governance can be modeled: What would a fediverse "governance" body look like?
[10:20] Joost Agterhoek: Hi everyone, as I still see people entering, great to have you here! Feel free to introduce yourself and your involvement/interest w ActivityPub & the fediverse in the Shared Notes (which you can find above the user list). Thanks!
[10:21] Matthew Wild: Hi! Matthew Wild from the XMPP Standards Foundation here
[10:22] Gijs Hillenius: Pandemic: nice game, it should use the Peter projection though. (seriously off topic)
[10:22] Joost Agterhoek: Hi Matthew! Great that you could be here, interested in your perspective on AP/XMPP-bridges
[10:22] Matthew Wild: Perspective: “excited” :slight_smile:
[10:22] hellekin: Hey Matt, did we meet at XMPP conf, before FOSDEM 2004?
[10:24] Matthew Wild: I think my first FOSDEM was 2007, so that probably wasn’t me
[10:24] aschrijver (humanetech): Libervia: A new bridge between ActivityPub and XMPP being funded by NGI0: NLnet; XMPP-ActivityPub gateway
[10:24] Arthur Lutz (Logilab): XMPP-ActivityPub gatemway funded by NLNet NLnet; XMPP-ActivityPub gateway
[10:24] maricn mikołajczak: Itʼs great that actually all of the OStatus implementations have activitypub support now
[10:26] hellekin: ActivityPub
[10:26] Jean-Luc (EC): NLnet; Extending PeerTube
[10:26] aschrijver (humanetech): Comprehensive overview of all fediverse apps based on AP in various stages of development:
[10:27] aschrijver (humanetech): And a related watchlist of developer resources:
[10:27] aschrijver (humanetech): Entries will be incorporated in when they reach more maturity.
[10:32] Joost Agterhoek: Spritely consists of a number of modular components bringing new and rich features, from distributed programming, to decentralized storage, to virtual worlds. →
[10:32] hellekin: See also Encoding for Robust Immutable Storage (ERIS) (Encoding for Robust Immutable Storage) and Distributed Mutable Containers (Distributed Mutable Containers)
[10:33] hellekin: Note: we do live in space, our spaceship is called Earth
[10:34] aschrijver (humanetech): Virtual worlds are part of Spritely because, besides being quite exciting on their own merit, if you can facilitate those you can create any kind of application on the Fediverse.
[10:36] Loretta: @lemmer What about disposable self sovereign identity/ies forcontext based online identity migration under (some more) user control?
[10:37] Alessandro JRC: At the New European Bauhaus we are thinking of expanding the scope of our site to support the growth of the community. is there any way to get in touch to understand how to practically start a conversation?
[10:37] Mario (Hubzilla): Talking about content and identity survival: zot has solutions for that already. But very curious where this trip will go :slight_smile:
[10:37] tuttle: +1
[10:37] Arthur Lutz (Logilab): :clap:
[10:37] titi: Thanks! :slight_smile:
[10:37] Michiel Leenaars: Great talk
[10:37] hellekin: Note: decentralization is not enough. Fakebooz used “OpenGraph Protocol”, based on RDF standard, and decentralized, to capture billions of data points from the open Web, into their centralized, private database, through their like button.
[10:37] aschrijver (humanetech): Hugely inspiring talk. Thank you, Chris!
[10:37] Sebastian: Awesome, inspiring and eye-opening presentation about the possibilities of ActivityPub.
It became clear how much we rely on volunteers.
I think it became clear that we should prevent anything to create new monopolies.
The EU now needs at least to fund a variety (!) of conformant diverse clients and nice generic servers.
In the specification “Activity Type Motivating Use Cases” would be so benefitial to EU citizens!

  1. Content Management
  2. Collection Management
    Events, Groups, Content Experience etc.
    Please, go fund.
    [10:37] Sebastian: Sidenote:
    ActivityPub would support all the aspects of an administrations need.
    This includes multi-language use!
    24 official languages and >50 in Europe …
    Please, go fund.
    [10:37] Yassine Doghri, Castopod: :clap::clap:
    [10:37] esther payne: thanks Christine it was a really good talk
    [10:38] Christine Lemmer Webber: thanks everyone!
    [10:38] Paul Fuxjäger: looking forward to share the recording of this talk to my peeps
    [10:38] Mario (Hubzilla): Thank You! @Christine
    [10:38] Jan Penfrat - EDRi: Thanks @Christine, very insightful!
    [10:39] hellekin: Note to presenters: please send me all slides so I can update the Agenda
    [10:40] Mathew Lowry: For those who didn’t see Cory Doctorow’s thread on how regulation risks entrenching today’s gatekeeper monopolies:
    [10:40] hellekin: Didn’t write a full article about it?
    [10:40] Mathew Lowry: probably. Queued to my ToDo…
    [10:40] Sander Van Dooren: Excellent presentation Christine, personally I really appreciate the ‘cybernetic’ approach. Addressing the sociological and technological side at the same time is much needed.
    [10:41] Michiel Leenaars: TOSDR is awesome
    [10:42] hellekin: Maybe that’s because technological and social are not two sides but a single thing.
    [10:42] Christine Lemmer Webber: @hellekin and anyone else who’d like it: slides here
    [10:42] Michiel Leenaars: Kudo’s to Hugo, Michiel and the team
    [10:43] Sander Van Dooren: @hellekin I couldn’t agree more. Unfortunately they are too often not considered together.
    [10:44] hellekin: Making them two things is missing a Century of both social science and philosophy of technique. The problem we’re facing now is that most philosophers of technique are clueless about actual contemporary technique, so they became irrelevant. Gilbert Simondon remains relevant, as do the STS authors (such as Anna Tsing, quoted in this webinaire’s first slide).
    [10:44] Michiel Leenaars: Having the default option involving no data transfer is obviously the best option.
    [10:45] Michiel Leenaars: Mitigation ideas list is great
    [10:46] hellekin: Robert: also you’re overtime :slight_smile:
    [10:47] aschrijver (humanetech): (Note, Privacy Label is interesting in this regard Privacy Label … from Tijmen Schep, the creator of the great site)
    [10:49] Jos Nickel: Side note: With TERREG & 2002/58 EC (Chatcontrol), I believe mentioning the transfer of data to the US as the major risk alone can be a shortcoming.
    [10:50] Sebastian: let’s say “outside EU” [ while news from Russia come in #nawalny ]
    [10:51] aschrijver (humanetech): +1 +1
    [10:51] maricn mikołajczak: What about just something like EDPS@eu? Thatʼs definitely possible
    [10:51] maricn mikołajczak: with webfinfer
    [10:52] maricn mikołajczak: webfinger
    [10:52] Alessandro JRC: Robert, you have a volunteer to add to your pilot!
    [10:53] Tanguy Fardet: you can disable comments on videos
    [10:53] marcin mikołajczak: Iʼm making too many typos today
    [10:53] Joost Agterhoek: Great Alessandro! If you want, you are free to present your own experiences/ideas on how Joint Research Centre is exploring the fediverse, after Robert
    [10:54] Gijs Hillenius: @aricn mikołajczak please elaborate your
    10:51 remark?
    [10:54] Sebastian: webfinger is not a part of the spec. Why should it be needed? The address can be the same (!) as the website, just
    [10:54] Arthur Lutz (Logilab): :clap:
    [10:54] tuttle: thank you
    [10:54] Sebastian: Thank You !
    [10:54] Christine Lemmer Webber: thanks!
    [10:54] titi: Thanks!
    [10:54] Yassine Doghri, Castopod: Thank you Robert!
    [10:54] Gijs Hillenius: (clap)
    [10:55] Michiel Leenaars: It would indeed be interesting to look at implementing ActivityPub not as something outside of the main websites - but as a regular capability.
    [10:55] Sebastian: +1
    [10:56] Tanguy Fardet: He’s logged as listener only
    [10:56] Paul Fuxjäger: he needs to rejoin with mic
    [10:56] Mario (Hubzilla): Allesandro joined as listener only it seems…
    [10:56] Arthur Lutz (Logilab): reload the page
    [10:56] Michiel Leenaars: We hear you
    [10:56] Mario (Hubzilla): +1
    [10:57] hellekin: Matthew Lowry: please use the chat.
    [10:57] Mathew Lowry: OK. Why?
    [10:59] aschrijver (humanetech): Thank your, Robert. Re:PeerTube… instance admins can disable P2P from the administration interface, for their own server. If the feature is enabled, users are warned by notification before they play the video.
    [10:59] Sebastian: Question to Chris:
    Cristina DeLisle said in last webinar “so when you as an admin were peering with another instance you are showing your set of values, and if that other instance believes that they are sharing those values, that instance can peer with you” –
    can Spritely help here?
    [11:01] Michiel Leenaars: Go to people are vs go to where people should be
    [11:01] Christine Lemmer Webber: @Sebastian I think it can help in that Spritely helps with handing out more specific and intentional amounts of authority with the peers you are developing shared values with. However I do tend to take less of an instance-oriented view than many others on the fediverse at present
    [11:02] Michiel Leenaars: Public sector communication has a special responsibility, because people have no alternative.
    [11:02] Christine Lemmer Webber: but in some ways that may be too rich a topic for a chat like this
    [11:03] aschrijver (humanetech): > Chris said: However I do tend to take less of an instance-oriented view than many others on the fediverse at present

This conforms with the perspective of fading app boundaries and more task-oriented approach: From silo-first to task-oriented federated app design
[11:03] esther payne: Michiel, indeed even at very local levels, there’s a duty to communicate to the maximum available audience, for example in my local department in france, storm communications get signaled on FB, as well as mobile warnings from commercial networls
[11:03] Sebastian: See what the protocol can do, the technical specifications:
Activity Vocabulary
[11:03] Michiel Leenaars: It is like get schools and government buildings smoke free
[11:04] Sebastian: Official forum
[11:04] Erik Kemp: @Michiel That’s a great analogy! The surveillance-free generation :slight_smile:
[11:04] Mario (Hubzilla): > It is like get schools and government buildings smoke free
[11:04] Mario (Hubzilla): This!
[11:04] esther payne: My departments website is constantly out of date, but FB page is always upto date, I think it’s the ease of update
[11:06] pdelacroix: can I talk a bit later if that’s possible>
[11:06] pdelacroix: ?
[11:06] aschrijver (humanetech): Hi there @m3me! Nice that you could join :slight_smile:
[11:07] Michiel Leenaars: If I understand Robert correctly, we will need to better “productize” the efforts as services organisations can buy. Challenge accepted.
[11:08] hellekin: Pierre you’ll need to rejoin to get voice
[11:08] Joost Agterhoek: Hi Pierre, no problem of course! Just let me know (indeed you should rejoin and choose for open mic instead of only listening)
[11:08] Jos Nickel: @Rieman: did the PR team also measure the level of engagement?
Often on twitter, offical accounts rather have a low level of audience engagement.
Thus, IMHO, many organisations just use twitter as a form of quick news agency.
On mastodon, my observation is that offical accounts still reach a smaller audience but have maybe a more quality engagement (i.e. feedback, idea exchange).
Is this an observation that other can confirm?
May this observation be influenced by the small number of useres or newsnet type of communication style?
[11:08] Robert Riemann: @ Alessandre: I get back to you!
[11:09] Robert Riemann: @aschrijver: I know that p2p in peertube can be disabled. Otherwise we could not start our pilot. :wink:
[11:09] Michiel Leenaars: R&D programmes only bootstrap efforts
[11:09] Roland Alton (fairkom): Yes, Michiel we see also the need that there is a market for eady made service packages. Installing Docker is convenient fpr tech people, but not for end users.
[11:09] Alessandro JRC: @Robert thanks!
[11:10] titi: I like this approach for communication:
[11:10] Michiel Leenaars: They are not meant to fund production implementation, just the path towards readyness
[11:11] Michiel Leenaars: So I agree that a more comprehensive effort is needed
[11:12] Michiel Leenaars: Probably the comms teams need the entire service stack that has grown on top of existing media. E.g. social media analytics, scheduling etc.
[11:13] tuttle: yes sir!
[11:13] Gijs Hillenius: it would also be nice if it was a matter of apt install (thing) and not docker this, or git that
[11:13] Roland Alton (fairkom): I understand that funding has its limits when we are close to fulfill market demands. Creating sustainable business models favorizing GDPR solutions is a challenge, though.
[11:14] Michiel Leenaars: Public institutions accept cost, like they operate their own mail servers and don’t hand out @gmail accounts.
[11:15] Roland Alton (fairkom): Public Code - public money
[11:15] hellekin: Good point. Mastodon is not the best representative of ActivityPub. It’s the largest, one of the first, but in terms of community collaboration, it’s not the best example.
[11:15] Sebastian +1 ! There are a lot of usecases that are not federated until know. federation is not only social media
[11:16] hellekin: Sebastian refers to the last Social CG meeting where we discussed ways to share this.
[11:16] titi: Thanks, Sebastian :slight_smile:
[11:16] hellekin: Nuno was next on the queue, did you lower your hand?
[11:16] Nuno Antunes: Answering the door, need to brb :stuck_out_tongue:
[11:17] Michiel Leenaars: Currently product selection cannot be dealt with through procurement. Maybe the best way at the EC level would be to appoint an independent technical committee?
[11:17] hellekin: OCapPub : Object Capabilities over ActivityPub,
[11:18] Michiel Leenaars: (or in other words: standard tender approach does not work for FOSS)
[11:18] Robert Riemann: @Michiel, isn’t this the role of NLnet?
[11:19] Sebastian: +1
[11:19] Erik Kemp: I agree that ‘productisation’ will be really important for the adoption of AP-platforms for especially smaller communities. I hope that someone will soon start a non-profit to offer a wide range of AP services :slight_smile: This will definitely create jobs, people working on the implementation and support of these platforms for existing communities.
[11:19] Michiel Leenaars: That is a big responsibility and would be a significant extension of our mandate, we are involved here as a simple grant maker.
[11:20] Michiel Leenaars: E.g. we are not funding any Mastodon related efforts.
[11:20] Sebastian: That is Horizon
[11:20] hellekin: PET = Privacy-Enhancing Technologies
[11:20] hellekin: Yes, Horizon Europe
[11:21] hellekin: Sebastian: since you recently spoke and Nuno was first on queue, he’ll speak first, ok?
[11:22] titi: Why Mastodon and not Pleroma?
[11:23] Michiel Leenaars: Those questions are open, and involve setting up criteria.
[11:23] Michiel Leenaars: It is Federated, so people are on the Fediverse
[11:24] Sebastian: would like to answer quickly
[11:24] Michiel Leenaars: And the technology chosen should be the most suited for the use case, since the federation is across instances.
[11:24] Joost Agterhoek: Of course, you can do so after Nuno again
[11:25] Roland Alton (fairkom): @Erik: we are an NGO offering service packages for open source tools with SingleSignOn - (=PeerTube) and faircloud (=nextclou) are our ActivityPub supporting services, portfolio to be extended …
[11:25] Michiel Leenaars: Pleroma instances talk to Mastodon instances, talk to GNU Social, etc. The unifying thing is ActivityPub, not Mastodon.
[11:26] Jos Nickel: Another aspekt: using alternative streaming services for live events: peertube & owncast can do this. The current stystems EU uses requrie that the audience who wants to participate in live chats get a Google account, first. This is a strong use case.
[11:26] aschrijver (humanetech): There is a new discussion on SocialHub about ‘engagement features’, triggered by Mastodon outlining an idea for an Account Recommendation system to onboard new users, that runs the risk to give rise to ‘influencers’ in similar ways to how traditional social media do that: Improve "Onboarding" of fedizens but avoid problematic engagement features

We are brainstorming alternative ways instead.
[11:26] titi: I know how the fedi works, thanks…
[11:26] Sebastian: re Jos / streaming EU-sponsored Jitsi Hackathon. PeerTube integration?
[11:27] tuttle: me too!
[11:27] hellekin: Yes, it’s like email!
[11:27] Mathew Lowry: +1
[11:28] tuttle: Mastodon is already a protagonist.
[11:28] Robert Riemann: Ask the lambda user of mastodon where s/he believes to have the account. I’d argue Mastodon is a brand.
[11:28] esther payne: It’s easier to think about product/clients than a protocol, we know this.
[11:28] HamishCampbell (OMN): What have i missed (bit of family emergency)
[11:28] Robert Riemann: This brand is easier to grasp than the more abstract ActivityPub standard.
[11:29] pdelacroix: yes let me reload
[11:30] Michiel Leenaars: You can use ActivityPub with your existing CMS too, like Drupal or Wordpress. In that sense it is even more like a common hyperlink, just with some magic to make things happen in the outside world.
[11:30] Michiel Leenaars: (crude simplification as searching for the right mental model for people to think about ActivityPub)
[11:30] aschrijver (humanetech): @Robert Riemann: This is something we are working on in SocialHub. We are broadening the community, and want less technical focus, a more holistic view on the entirety of evolving the fediverse. I invite anyone to come join our discussions. The Fediverse Futures category is well-suited to let your thoughts run freely :slight_smile:
[11:31] Yury Bulka [undltd]: Sorry, have to rejoin with mic
[11:32] Michiel Leenaars: Pierre is meanwhile there
[11:32] Jos Nickel: Sorry cannot loginto audi. But would like to make a case for a ActicvityPub powered streaming service. See above. It would be greate wto participate in discussions on streams without a Google/twisch, etc. account
[11:32] Joost Agterhoek: Great, Pierre feel free to take the floor after Robert
[11:32] pdelacroix: OK!
[11:32] Michiel Leenaars: Just tell them that it is basically the web.
[11:33] Alessandro JRC: @Nuno If it is possible to create content for a federated network and then “bot-tweet” it to other platforms, then maybe we could use that strategy. And the standard answer on i.e. twitter could be, the conversation s happening elsewhere, join there.
[11:33] Michiel Leenaars: And not a separate box
[11:33] HamishCampbell (OMN): #openweb
[11:33] hellekin: Robert: we should definitely collaborate on this narrative on the SocialHub. It would be useful to screen the narratives through the source!
[11:33] HamishCampbell (OMN): Is an easy concept
[11:33] Roland Alton (fairkom): Open Source projects have a branding chaos since ever.
[11:34] Sebastian: A visual explainer (compromise) like in Decentralized Social Networks vs. The Trolls - ConfTube
[11:35] Michiel Leenaars: Very encouraging to hear that you are in this for the long term.
[11:35] Sebastian: ^ Talk from ActivityPub Conf
[11:35] hellekin: please don’t “google”, use a real verb.
[11:35] Roland Alton (fairkom): We should promote ONE talking, convincing brand.
[11:35] esther payne: I think Robert is right, we saw this years ago in the commercial world, microsoft outlook rather than email for example.
[11:35] Arthur Lutz (Logilab): :+1:
[11:35] My feeling so far is that not everywhere where ActivityPub is on it, ActivityPub is also in it! We should also work on a common understanding of ActivityPub. And think in usecases, that are solved by ActivityPub.
[11:35] Christine Lemmer Webber: this has also happened in FOSS, “Ubuntu” for all FOSS desktops / operating systems
[11:35] esther payne: +1
[11:35] Michiel Leenaars: In that case, proper specifications and interoperability rather than “whatever the software does today” is in the long term interest
[11:35] Sebastian: sad
[11:35] Christine Lemmer Webber: it can be frustrating, trust me few people can get more frustrated with “the mastodon network” than me :wink:
[11:36] Christine Lemmer Webber: but
[11:36] tuttle: Let’s hope the EU doesn’t proudly announce “We’re on Mastodon!”
[11:36] Christine Lemmer Webber: people only have some time and attention
[11:36] Christine Lemmer Webber: and sometimes we have to meet people where they are, thank them for making it that far
[11:36] esther payne: +1
[11:36] HamishCampbell (OMN): Open/closed is a useful way at looking at this “branding” issues. keep it #KISS
[11:36] Christine Lemmer Webber: and then help them make the next step as a positive move
[11:36] Michiel Leenaars: The great thing about ActivityPub is that people can just go to a web page
[11:36] Mathew Lowry: Making change happen within the EC is HARD. @Robert you have nothing to apoligise for!!!
[11:36] Michiel Leenaars: so they don’t need to know the product or the standard to enjoy the benefits
[11:36] hellekin: Kazarma / Kazarma · GitLab
[11:37] Joost Agterhoek:
[11:37] Michiel Leenaars: NLnet; Kazarma
[11:37] Tanguy Fardet: Just a note about matrix: that’s what is used by the French administration: Matrix and Riot confirmed as the basis for France's Secure Instant Messenger app |
[11:37] Alessandro JRC: @tuttle what should the EU say? In a way that is understood as powefully as saying “we are on mastodon”?
[11:38] Yury Bulka [undltd]: (Just 5 cents regarding institutions entering the Fediverse - we should recommend them to not passively crosspost their content from Twitter/etc - that makes a spammy experience for, say, a Mastodon user where the timeline is strictly chronological. Instead they should handle their Fediverse presence directed at the Fediverse community.)
[11:38] aschrijver (humanetech): I feel what Robert mentioned should become a big topic of focus within SocialHub. We are moving in the direction to better communications for peopl who do not know what the fediverse is, and we must gives this more body.
[11:38] Mathew Lowry: +1 aschrijver
[11:38] hellekin: Chat client for Matrix
[11:38] Michiel Leenaars: What I would say: “We have a new social channel, You can get everything you can get on other media, without the disadvantages”
[11:39] Robert Riemann: Though this has not been tested yet: I believe the EDPS receives more public attention when announcing a “mastodon” account than an “activitypub”-enabled account. Though of course, we should explain in the 2nd or 3rd phrase that interoperability is thx to activtiypub.
[11:39] Mathew Lowry: I joined the EC in 2001 after bashing my ahead against their wall for 6 years…
[11:39] Alessandro JRC: @Yury exactly. We shoudld curate content for the fediverse and spam post for non fediverse, if at all
[11:39] Gijs Hillenius: @yury but crossposting would be step one…
[11:39] HamishCampbell (OMN): We are on the #openweb = ActivityPub
[11:39] Mathew Lowry: ~Yes, #openweb is an excellent brand
[11:39] Alessandro JRC: @michiel thanks!!
[11:39] HamishCampbell (OMN): We also communicate on the #closedweb - that would be twitter, facebook ect.
[11:40] Alessandro JRC: Thanks @HamishCampbell
[11:40] Michiel Leenaars: +1 on #openweb
[11:40] Sebastian: full ack. #openweb #openborders
[11:40] titi: Roland: We should promote ONE talking, convincing brand. (The FEDIVERSE?)
[11:40] aschrijver (humanetech): @Robert: Our vision is one of “Social Networking Reimagined”. Part of that should be a new terminology, a common language to explain clearly what that entails.
[11:40] Robert Riemann: There was no consensus of the EU institutions for the domain, because of its current policy audience having other expectations (rather EU social policy than activitypub).
[11:40] hellekin: Good point. Pacing communication is
[11:40] hellekin: different
[11:41] esther payne: To some extent recommendations could be an etiquette guide like in the 90s
[11:41] Erik Kemp: Step 2 to a surveillance-free generation (1 was GDPR?), not just by regulation ‘afterwards’, but by empowering citizens through an ethically design our own digital tools based on our European values? :slight_smile:
[11:41] hellekin: since the incentive is not to appear in the timeline, but to reach out to and respect users.
[11:41] HamishCampbell (OMN): #openweb would also be EU websites a simple positive message that is a good metaphor for where we are in this mess.
[11:41] hellekin: s/users/the audience/
[11:41] Robert Riemann: @aschrijver: please send me your common language proposal per email
[11:41] aschrijver (humanetech): In profiles I mention a “fediverse” address, rather than a “mastodon” address… that’s a first easy shift of focus.
[11:41] Michiel Leenaars: You can have different accounts with different policies. Having 100% information coverage is important, because otherwise people not on #closedweb are missing out.
[11:42] Michiel Leenaars: fediverse is indeed also brand neutral
[11:42] aschrijver (humanetech): > please send me your common language proposal per email

That proposal does not yet exist, but we’ll address this openly on SocialHub. PS. I sent a request on linkedin.
[11:43] aschrijver (humanetech): an invite rather
[11:43] gertv: The fediverse could become more than just web.
[11:43] esther payne: +1
[11:43] Cristina: An attempt to provide us with an unifying vision of the Fediverse was in the previous webinar
[11:43] aschrijver (humanetech): Social Networking Reimagined and United in Diversity, gettv :smiley:
[11:43] aschrijver (humanetech): gertv
[11:44] Yury Bulka [undltd]: my first time in Big Blue Button :slight_smile:
[11:45] Joost Agterhoek: No problem! I keep leaving my mic on so you can hear my aggressive typing, that’s worse :wink:
[11:45] Yury Bulka [undltd]: I think the idea that Petros raised is a very good practical recommendation
[11:46] Yury Bulka [undltd]: Much better than crossposting from Twitter
[11:46] Mathew Lowry: reminds me of how twitter was first seen: “micro-blogging”.
[11:46] Mathew Lowry: People perceive new things using the paradigms they already have
[11:46] Tanguy Fardet: I think it’s good that we acknowledge that conveying the idea of Federation is hard because this means that this is where we need to invest time and effort to make it as easy as possible
[11:46] m3me: The UX layer needs lots of work on fediverse and the AP protocol needs to fade in the background. When I have some time I’d love to share more input on this. Thanks to all the presenters and everyone sharing their perspective. So excited to see this progress. I have to get the kids to bed (Australia timezone). Will check out the rest when the recording goes live.
[11:48] tuttle: We could ask gargon to make the (excessive) branding optional when you configure the server.
[11:48] Nuno Antunes: that’s very much the feeling I get, Mathew
[11:48] hellekin: EC -- Workshop 2021-04-29
[11:48] Do we have a common understanding of the use cases we want to solve in the administrations with ActivityPub?
[11:48] Joost Agterhoek: Very good point M3me, please share your ideas on Socialhub
[11:48] Alessandro JRC: @fredy on the use cases we could talk
[11:49] Michiel Leenaars: I agree that the #openinternet is much bigger than the #openweb but it would be meaningful for Fediverse to a subset of everything on the internet as some form of persistent public reachability seems distinct/important to public social media over e.g. private messaging or email.
[11:49] @allessandro that would be a good start ,-)
[11:49] aschrijver (humanetech): Would remind you of this image that demonstrates the Fediverse with EU values:
[11:49] Sebastian: @Fredy… see also Activity Vocabulary
[11:50] Joost Agterhoek: Fredy not yet I suppose, outlining these would be a great starting point to understand the use case/needs, instead of ‘just’ starting one or two services.
[11:50] aschrijver (humanetech): There are no apps in this image, just different activities and task based upon which people are interacting…
[11:50] Michiel Leenaars: Personally I would like to see millions of ActivityPub instances, not one per country :wink:
[11:50] Robert Riemann: I think the technical people here underestimate the change that EU communications team would face when entering the fediverse. There are no ads to push content, it is difficult to remove content, less statistics (but more privacy).

Also note: The EDPS rather uses Twitter to report on events or link documents from the web. Many EU institutions do not have a dialogue with citizens on social networks.
[11:50] Tanguy Fardet: There is a lot of PeerTube instances use by French education instances that you could contact to ask them for feedback if you want
[11:51] Michiel Leenaars: @Robert Riemann: would be great to hear those feature requests
[11:51] hellekin: Tanguy, Nicolas SCHOINT was here before, unfortunately he had to leave early. I’ll join him after the meeting.
[11:51] Roland Alton (fairkom): @titi: yes maybe we should always talk about FEDIVERSE first, and later mention the services. We should put FEDIVERSE under a label commons license
[11:52] Do we have a place in socialhub to discuss open questions from the webimnars? A own “topic” ?
[11:52] Tanguy Fardet: @hellekin ok, great
[11:52] Erik Kemp: @Robert I have had these discussions in my university too, good luck :wink: Understanding will come in time, it definitely helps when people higher in the hierarchy acknowledge that this is the direction where we are heading.
[11:52] hellekin: Sorry, typo: SCHONT
[11:52] Robert Riemann: @Michiel: Maybe after our pilot. Also I believe EU institutions just need to change their strategies or accept limitations (like no ads). I doubt that this can be fixed with changing software code.
[11:52] Joost Agterhoek: Thanks Tanguy, good point to have experienced institutions contribute, as hellekin mentioned we have links here
[11:52] Arthur Lutz (Logilab): :+1:
[11:52] Alessandro JRC: good point.
[11:53] gertv: What is wrong with public/private?
[11:53] Michiel Leenaars: @Robert: what kind of ads are meant?
[11:54] Mathew Lowry: @tanguy when was the last time you saw the EC reply to someone on twitter???
[11:54] Alessandro JRC: We need more support for community building beyond what social media does
[11:54] hellekin: Good point Tanguy, we mentioned this last week. Drupal is very much central to EU pulbications and WriteFreely is a great writing plaform as well.
[11:55] Tanguy Fardet: ok, great
[11:55] Robert Riemann: I need to leave – thx for having me!
[11:55] Michiel Leenaars: If you want to send messages alongside short blurbs and announcements, these fit on any regular webpage.
[11:55] Michiel Leenaars: Thanks Robert!
[11:55] Nuno Antunes: @Mathew The EC rarely does community management (replies) on Twitter, but this was a “strategic decision”. We do community management on the other “big” platforms: Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn
[11:56] Nuno Antunes: (speaking about the central accounts only.)
[11:56] aschrijver (humanetech): Thank you Robert!
[11:57] Joost Agterhoek: Thanks Robert for your presentation and considerations!
[11:57] Mario (Hubzilla): Thanks to everybody for the very insightful informations, ideas and opinions!
[11:59] pdelacroix: Joost you’ve been an amazing master of ceremony :wink:
[11:59] hellekin: Everyone: if you’re willing to come next Thursday afternoon to the workshop, please contact me (either on socialhub, fediverse or email, respectively,, how on the zoethical dot com domain)
[11:59] titi: Thanks!
[11:59] Mathew Lowry: Thanks @nuno for that and thx everyone for gr8 meeting
[11:59] Piotr “Petros” Skulski: I am so sorry I have to leave at 12. I hope to continue some threads via SocialHub.
[11:59] aschrijver (humanetech): Thank you Joost, for your great moderation of the events, and all the prep work!
[11:59] Christine Lemmer Webber: thanks for having me!
[11:59] Michiel Leenaars: Thanks
[11:59] esther payne: Thanks for the presentations
[12:00] Diogo Cordeiro: Thanks everyone!
[12:00] Jean-Luc (EC): great job Joost, Hellekin, Arnorld in preparing this event
[12:00] Yassine Doghri, Castopod: Thank you for the presentations and discussion!
[12:00] Ok, have to leave. see you soon. Thanks!
[12:00] Alessandro JRC: Thank you all!!
[12:01] hellekin: \o/ See you on Thursday
[12:01] Arthur Lutz (Logilab): :clap:
[12:01] Christine Lemmer Webber: bye everyone!
[12:01] Benjamin Bellamy, Castopod: Thank you!
[12:01] Mathew Lowry: seeya!
[12:01] Alexandre: Thanks!
[12:01] Mario (Hubzilla): Bye!!!
[12:01] esther payne: Have to go, see you on thursday
[12:01] Nuno Antunes: Thank you, everyone! Very insightful
[12:01] Sebastian: Inviting also to a debate if “interests”, “engagement” and “topics” should be more important than “popularity” Improve "Onboarding" of fedizens but avoid problematic engagement features
[12:01] Sebastian: Thank you all !!!
[12:01] aschrijver (humanetech): Everyone can join SocialHub to help with preparation for the Workshop! You are all most welcome :smiley:
[12:01] Cristina: Thank you all! :slight_smile:
[12:02] tuttle: Adeu! :slight_smile:
[12:02] hellekin: Thank you all, see you on the SocialHub and on Thursday – also on the Fediverse, of course!
[12:02] Sebastian: see ya, harrrr
[12:02] hellekin: adio tuttle eskerrik asko :wink:
[12:02] Tanguy Fardet: thanks a lot for the organization!
[12:03] Joost Agterhoek: Bye bye everyone, thanks again for all your questions and the lively discussion, both in chat as in audio, it was very inspiring :slight_smile:
[12:04] Matthew Wild: Thanks Joost, hellekin, and everyone :slight_smile:
[12:05] hellekin: We’ll have the recordings on the agenda link like last week shortly. (When the uploads are finished)

Introduction (10 min)

Introduction and recap by NLnet and EC CNECT about need and interest of European Commission for decentralized online communication and how ActivityPub can bridge to other decentralizing communities ( Linked Data, SOLID, etc.)

ActivityPub Presentation, part 2 (20 min)

Presentation from the ActivityPub community:

simple version with only the slides and cameras

EDPS Presentation (10 min)

Presentation from the European Data Protection Supervisor:

2021-04-26-ActivityPub-for-Administrations_EDPS.pdf (1022.9 KB)

JRC Presentation (10 min)

Presentation from the Joint Research Center:

(Mr. Rancati did not use slides, please refer to the videos above.)

Discussion (1 hour)

Discussion with:

Conclusion (5 min)

Conclusion and bridge to the workshop



Workship with live installation of PeerTube and Mastodon installations from scratch, followed by a tour through the admin UI and demonstration of how the apps federate together. In addition to that the federated interaction with Immers Space virtual worlds was also demonstrated.

participants introductions (click to expand)




Co-founder of petites singularités, mentor for the NGI0 consortium, admin of the SocialHub.

Joost Agterhoek

Policy & technology advisor with NLnet foundation, internet charity spearheading the NGI Zero open source & open hardware grants



Hamish Campbell (OMN)

Michiel Leenaars , director of Strategy at NLnet Foundation and coordinator of NGI Zero.

Jean-Luc Dorel , Programme Manager NGI, EC DG CNECT

Gijs Hillenius ; European Commission open source programme office

Mario Vavti , developer and project lead of, a powerful platform for creating interconnected websites featuring a decentralized identity, communications, and permissions framework.



Nuno Antunes ; European Commission

External service provider helping the European Commission with social media performance analysis and social listening.

Yassine Doghri (https: // ) - Lead dev and maintainer of Castopod, a federated, free and open source self-hosted platform for managing your podcasts.

Benjamin Bellamy Father of Castopod, an open-source podcast hosting platform for both RSS and ActivityPub, supported by NLnet. CEO and Founder of Ad Aures, a company which provides Contextual Monetization for Podcasts.

Mathew Lowry , founder of, a proof of concept I’d like to move to the Fediverse to add social features. About | Mathew Lowry's Hub | MyHub.AI

Erik Kemp


  • Student Cyber Security @ UTwente (specialising in digital sovereignty & digital inequality)

  • Admin of

Arnold Schrijver

Moderator on SocialHub, founder and facilitator of Humane Tech Community, FOSS and Fediverse advocate, as well as tech guy. Humane Tech Now ( - Mastodon

Diogo Cordeiro ( – GNU social (

We work in GNU social, the eldest free social network platform for public and private communications, with a focus on accesibility used in federated social networks.

With NLnet NGIZero support, we’re trying to further differentiate GNU social by exploring the full potential of groups, among other improvements.

full conversation in the chat panel (click to expand)

[13:39] hellekin: Workshop instructions:
[13:53] Jos van den Oever (NLnet): I can hear you
[13:53] HamishCampbell (OMN): yep
[13:53] Joost Agterhoek: Good!
[13:55] Mario (Hubzilla): Hi everybody!
[13:55] Joost Agterhoek: Hi Mario, great that you could be here
[13:55] Joost Agterhoek: Hi Erik, nice of you to join again
[13:55] Erik Kemp: Hi :slight_smile:
[13:57] Jos van den Oever (NLnet): ‘Share your name’ Isn’t that what Spartacus did?
[13:58] Jean-Luc (EC): hello everyone
[13:58] Joost Agterhoek: Good afternoon Jean-Luc
[13:58] Michiel: Hi all!
[13:58] Alexandre: Good afternoon!
[13:59] Joost Agterhoek: Hi Alexandre, good afternoon, thanks for joining
[13:59] Yassine Doghri, Castopod: Good afternoon everyone!
[13:59] Joost Agterhoek: Hi Will, Yassine, good afternoon
[13:59] Elisavet Fakou: Hello!
[13:59] Will Murphy - Immers Space: Hello, Will Murphy from Immers Space - the federated social network for the 3D Immersive Web
[14:00] Joost Agterhoek: Hi Elisavet, great that you’re here
[14:01] Benjamin Bellamy, Castopod: Hello everyone! :sun_with_face:
[14:01] Jean-Luc (EC): Joost: will this session be recorded?
[14:02] Jos van den Oever (NLnet): Mario congrats on 5.4.3 :slight_smile:
[14:03] Mario (Hubzilla): Thanks @Jos
[14:04] Mario (Hubzilla): Coincidentally we released 5.6RC today :slight_smile:
[14:05] hellekin: Jean-Luc : we have the BBB recording, and I think Will is live streaming and recording his side.
[14:08] hellekin: Please check for SSH access…
[14:09] Will Murphy - Immers Space: stream from my side is live at
[14:10] hellekin: Recordings:
[14:10] hellekin: sorry…
[14:10] hellekin: Recordings EC - NGI0 Liaison -- Webinars and Workshop April 2021 - SocialHub
[14:12] Michiel: Mario: congratulations!
[14:12] Joost Agterhoek: Sure, will do
[14:12] hellekin:
[14:13] Mario (Hubzilla): Thanks @Michiel!
[14:14] Will Murphy - Immers Space: Here’s the link to the virtual room:
I’ll stream the screenshare in there as well
[14:17] hellekin: tmux attach
[14:17] HamishCampbell (OMN): Would be good to reduce the res ot the screen with text - ahA BETTER :slight_smile:
[14:18] hellekin:
[14:19] hellekin:
[14:19] hellekin:
[14:21] Jos van den Oever (NLnet): BBB needs ascii-casting :slight_smile: Text is readable now
[14:21] Joost Agterhoek: 800x600 now. Readable? Good
[14:21] HamishCampbell (OMN): :slight_smile:
[14:22] Michiel: Works full screen now
[14:24] Sander Van Dooren: The sweet sound of mechanical keyboard :slight_smile:
[14:25] Michiel: Apologies.
[14:25] Michiel: Turned my audio off now :wink:
[14:26] Michiel: It is indeed a 32 year old keyboard that has been with me since 1989 :wink:
[14:28] Michiel: And you don’t even have to play live guitar :wink:
[14:28] Mario (Hubzilla): ^^Gorgeous
[14:30] aschrijver (humanetech): Here is the announcement of Live Streaming in PeerTube v3
[14:30] Michiel:
[14:30] Sander Van Dooren: Must be a robust one to last that long, more of a cherry red person myself. Anyway, there was no sarcasm in my statement
[14:30] Michiel: M-series IBM :wink:
[14:32] HamishCampbell (OMN): If the is going to be long gaps in the installation we can talk about hosting specks - just give us a heads up
[14:32] Francesco: the error message says that it didn’t symlink yarn cause you have it already installed
[14:33] Joost Agterhoek:
[14:36] Sander Van Dooren: Why not put it in a Docker image?
[14:36] HamishCampbell (OMN): Our peertube instance is a little radical for the #EU, but it gives an idea of how it works
[14:36] HamishCampbell (OMN): feel free to ask any questions
[14:37] Jos van den Oever (NLnet): with broccoli
[14:37] Benjamin Bellamy, Castopod: +1 on Michiel’s comment about Docker :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
[14:37] aschrijver (humanetech): For those interested… here’s information on a Docker install:
[14:38] Michiel: And yes, we will package Castopod Server real early on
[14:38] Will Murphy - Immers Space: How do we get Immers Space packaged on Nix?
[14:38] Benjamin Bellamy, Castopod: My 2 cents: Docker is GREAT for development environments, it is a huge LIABILITY for production environments…
[14:39] Michiel: Hi WIll, we can put it on the list of our packagers.
[14:39] Jos van den Oever (NLnet): i still use docker quite a bit, many people /distros have it and it’s easy to distribute black magic in a blob and run it semi-securely
[14:39] Jos van den Oever (NLnet): mainly for trying out things that’s not packaged in nix
[14:41] Michiel:
[14:41] Michiel: Happy to bring you into contact with the Nix folks
[14:42] Joost Agterhoek: Some useful hosting solutions/providers were mentioned in the previous webinar, will try to look that up
[14:42] hellekin:
[14:42] G: Even easier than Nix or Docker may be to just use a server management tool like Yunohost or Cloudron
[14:42] Benjamin Bellamy, Castopod: Castopod does not require a root ssh access.
And you can install as many Castopod instances as you want to on the same server just by unzipping it several times.
Nevertheless it’s being packaged in and Debian
[14:45] Alexandre: Thanks for the suggestions! :slight_smile:
[14:46] Tanguy Fardet: wasn’t it demo_peertube?
[14:47] Michiel: Tanguy: if it is, you win bonus points :wink:
[14:47] Tanguy Fardet: great!
[14:48] Jos van den Oever (NLnet): A good teacher mixes up + and - when writing equations on the board to check if students are paying attention.
[14:48] Joost Agterhoek: @Alexandre, there is a discussion on bundling hosting of federated services here →
[14:49] Alexandre: Thanks Joost!
[14:49] Michiel: It seems to work?
[14:49] Tanguy Fardet: peertube page is up
[14:49] Michiel: Congratulations
[14:49] Joost Agterhoek: \0/
[14:49] HamishCampbell (OMN): :slight_smile:
[14:50] HamishCampbell (OMN): link?
[14:51] Jos van den Oever (NLnet):
[14:51] Michiel:
[14:52] HamishCampbell (OMN): add a video from youtube - you might have to go into adim to turn this option on.
[14:52] Jos van den Oever (NLnet): admin password is not ‘admin’ i checked
[14:52] Michiel:
[14:53] HamishCampbell (OMN): you can test this one to show how easy it is.
[14:53] Michiel: Did not click on it, but is is Rick Astley?
[14:54] HamishCampbell (OMN): nop, should have been :wink: one of my video so no issue with copyright
[14:57] hellekin: in the meantime you may go to register an account at
[14:57] Michiel:
[14:58] Michiel: Is it using youtube_dl?
[14:59] Sander Van Dooren: Can transcoding/importing be delegated to a backend server?
[14:59] Michiel: Very useful
[14:59] G: ⇒ I see “YoutubeDL” several times indeed
[15:00] Michiel: Makes sense. Great, that works with a lot of tools, but also like Invidious
[15:00] Erik Kemp: The video already plays now :slight_smile:
[15:04] Michiel: You can actually automate the import:
[15:04] aschrijver (humanetech):
[15:04] Tanguy Fardet:
[15:05] Tanguy Fardet: know we can check “discover”
[15:10] hellekin: Michiel I added your key to the server if you like to connect
[15:10] Tanguy Fardet: there’s a chat plugin for the live-streaming I think
[15:12] Joost Agterhoek: Good point, adding it now
[15:13] Alexandre: Great points, yes. :slight_smile:
[15:13] aschrijver (humanetech): The blocked video is mine. Might be nice to review it. It has a cheesy text, I quickly typed. I am curious why it was blocked. License choice?
[15:16] hellekin: Your bundle is locked to mimemagic (0.3.5) from rubygems repository or installed locally, but that version can no longer be found in that source. That means the author of mimemagic (0.3.5)
has removed it. You’ll need to update your bundle to a version other than mimemagic (0.3.5) that hasn’t been removed in order to install.
[15:18] Benjamin Bellamy, Castopod: there was a problem with Mastodon, I dont know if it was corrected
[15:18] Joost Agterhoek: Screenshare on again in just a second
[15:18] Joost Agterhoek: The text should be readable
[15:18] Joost Agterhoek: Thanks again Hamish for your nice introduction into PeerTube
[15:19] HamishCampbell (OMN): yep commenting would be a good demo of activertypub
[15:20] Tanguy Fardet: it’s too new, you need to add the whole handle
[15:20] Joost Agterhoek: Good point, does anyone have it ready for copy/paste?
[15:21] Will Murphy - Immers Space: Can you demo Mastodon + Immers federation? Look up
[15:21] Tanguy Fardet:
[15:22] Tanguy Fardet: or just
[15:22] Benjamin Bellamy, Castopod:
[15:22] Benjamin Bellamy, Castopod: “You’re going to have to use code from main if you want to install right now. An unfortunate situation.”
[15:22] hellekin:
[15:24] Tanguy Fardet: fedizen
[15:24] Benjamin Bellamy, Castopod: FYI, last time I (successfully) installed Mastodon, I used this:
[15:24] Will Murphy - Immers Space: tag in a comment
[15:25] Joost Agterhoek: Will do
[15:25] Tanguy Fardet: can you put back the link?
[15:26] Will Murphy - Immers Space:
[15:26] Tanguy Fardet: thx
[15:28] hellekin: Joost do you want to show it while Will is speaking?
[15:28] Michiel: It is being shown, right?
[15:29] Sebastian: Yes, your comment was shown!
[15:29] Tanguy Fardet: yes
[15:29] Sebastian: Hop in, everybody – Here’s the link to the virtual room:
[15:30] Michiel: @hellekin: for ssh, server is but what user name?
[15:32] Michiel: Funky!
[15:33] Joost Agterhoek:
[15:34] hellekin: michiel it’s workshop
[15:34] HamishCampbell (OMN): ActivityPub is the glue
[15:35] hellekin: In you can turn around using the Q and E keys
[15:36] HamishCampbell (OMN): its gryed out
[15:39] hellekin:
[15:40] Welcome to FediverseWebinars!For help on using BigBlueButton see these (short) tutorial videos.To join the audio bridge click the phone button. Use a headset to avoid causing background noise for others.To join this meeting by phone, dial: +31 15 201 0064Then enter 29179 as the conference PIN number.
[15:41] hellekin:
[15:41] aschrijver (humanetech): Lost mine too.
[15:41] aschrijver (humanetech): I saw the entry of the chess world, then it hung.
[15:43] Michiel: A glitch in the matrix
[15:43] Michiel: It appears to be a synthetic world
[15:44] hellekin: Alexandre you got it!
[15:45] hellekin: Alexandre you already have all accesses
[15:45] hellekin: we’ll change the password of course after the workshop :smiley:
[15:45] hellekin: passwords plural
[15:46] Alexandre: Thank you very much! :slight_smile:
[15:47] HamishCampbell (OMN): We can look at the backend if the is time.
[15:47] aschrijver (humanetech): I would once again anyone to join the SocialHub forum, where we can have any in-depth discussion on all-things-fediverse and ActivityPub.
[15:47] aschrijver (humanetech): invite missing.
[15:50] Yassine Doghri, Castopod: Thank you hellekin
[15:50] aschrijver (humanetech): “Social Networking Reimagined” is our vision, and “United by Diversity” among our common values :smiley:
[15:50] Michiel: Thanks. I look forward to future sessions on eg. Castopod, GNU Social, etc
[15:50] Michiel:
[15:50] Alexandre: Thank you very much! I hope we can get the point across with the other EUIs and get them on board. :slight_smile:
[15:50] Michiel: Joined the Fediverse this month !
[15:50] Frodo von Fubar: I’m discovering Jami is interesting too.
[15:51] aschrijver (humanetech): Thank you for joining everyone. Thanks Hellekin for your great job demo’ing with all of us watching. Thanks Joost for all the prep work!
[15:52] aschrijver (humanetech): And Hellekin too, with lotsa efforts behind the scenes. Kudos!
[15:52] Mario (Hubzilla): Unfortunately i have to leave early. Thanks to everybody involved in the hard work to make this series possible. Hope we will see/hear eachother soon!
[15:52] Mario (Hubzilla): Cheers, Mario
[15:52] Michiel: Cheers!
[15:52] Joost Agterhoek: Of course Mario, thanks for joining!
[15:53] HamishCampbell (OMN): Hellekin am impressed that they both webapps made it online in the demo :slight_smile:
[15:53] Gijs Hillenius: YEP!
[15:54] Yassine Doghri, Castopod: Thanks all! Great events :slight_smile:
[15:54] Frodo von Fubar: Thank you all.
[15:54] Francesco Albinati (EDPS): Thank you, very useful!
[15:54] Michiel: Now let’s cover up everything under the hood and make them into services that users can just get by checking a box and swiping their credit card :wink:
[15:54] hellekin: Thank you all!
[15:54] Gijs Hillenius: these apps should go into distro’s.
[15:54] Sander Van Dooren: Thank you
[15:54] bye!
[15:54] Benjamin Bellamy, Castopod: Bye !
[15:54] Tanguy Fardet: thanks a lot, bye!
[15:54] Michiel: @Gijs: working on that!
[15:54] and thanks a lot to all
[15:55] Jean-Luc (EC): bye!
[15:55] Alexandre: Thank you once again. Looking forward for future interactions! :slight_smile:
[15:55] Gijs Hillenius: @michiel thanks! (I am sure it will be a lot of work)
[15:55] Benjamin Bellamy, Castopod: Thnak you all!!! :pray:
[15:55] Will Murphy - Immers Space: Thank you all!
[15:56] Benjamin Bellamy, Castopod: If you want to check on Castopod, go there:
[15:56] Diogo Cordeiro: Thank you!
[15:57] Jos van den Oever (NLnet): thanks for the workshop!
[15:57] Gijs Hillenius: bye all!
[15:57] Erik Kemp: Thanks for organising. You might have lost some people by sharing the terminal magic ;-). And Hamish, yes a similar run through mastodon would be nice, but maybe we can do that in a future recorded session too? This peertube run is definitely worth sharing!
[15:58] Joost Agterhoek: Agreed, hope once the instance was up, things were understandable again (they were for me as a technical newcomer :slight_smile:
[15:59] HamishCampbell (OMN): Now someone has to tidy up the peertube and find some EU friendly instances to federate to :slight_smile:
[16:04] hellekin: I changed all passwords. Will leave a note in /root/README and /home/workshop/README
[16:05] hellekin: Will also make some changes in the VM configuration so it’s a bit more secure.
[16:07] Joost Agterhoek: By the way @Pavlina, as you are interested in semantic data/web with your work on SEMIC, ActivityPub utilizes Linked Data as well (check out chapter 1 Overview) → ActivityPub
[16:08] Pavlina Fragkou DIGIT D2: @Joost: thanks for sharing this information. Seems very interesting.
[16:11] Joost Agterhoek: Cool
[16:12] Erik Kemp: I think broadcasters might be an interesting target audience for sessions like this. I am in contact with people from the VPRO in the Netherlands, and I hope they will also start publishing to their own PeerTube instances instead of YouTube.
[16:13] Erik Kemp: Because they are very interested in giving their members more opportunities to start creating content themselves.
[16:13] HamishCampbell (OMN): a media company would be good
[16:14] Joost Agterhoek: Agreed, NGI Zero is funding their work (the Public Spaces coalition) to migrate large amounts of open video content w correct metadata →
[16:15] HamishCampbell (OMN): Joost i think you have a new project…
[16:15] HamishCampbell (OMN): I would be happy to consult and work on this :slight_smile:
[16:16] Erik Kemp: Yep, very cool Joost! I have already shared these webinars in the PublicSpaces Matrix chat.
[16:17] Joost Agterhoek: Great, I think they are doing awesome work as the extensions they propose would indeed make it so much easier for broadcasters w an established Youtube-presence to switch (which should be as easy as possible)
[16:21] Erik Kemp: Ok, I’ll be leaving for another meeting. Thanks a lot, I hope to join future similar events too :slight_smile:
[16:21] aschrijver (humanetech): @Erik I talked with Roland Duong of VPRO Tegenlicht, but they had already done a documentary on fediverse, I think.
[16:22] aschrijver (humanetech): Oh, no. I remember… it was a talk with Aral Balkan.
[16:22] Erik Kemp: Yes, I have also had contact with Roland, their podcast ‘the future of the internet’ was very interesting :slight_smile:
[16:23] aschrijver (humanetech): We might approach Tegenlicht to create a feature on the decentralized web.
[16:23] aschrijver (humanetech): The fedi web :smiley:
[16:23] Erik Kemp: Great idea :slight_smile:
[16:24] HamishCampbell (OMN): #openweb
[16:24] Erik Kemp: Oh and I saw I was tagged on the socialhub, although I am technically also a student of the TU Delft, I was not involved in the choice of this BBB instance =)
[16:24] HamishCampbell (OMN): Has a history #nothingnew
[16:24] Joost Agterhoek: Hahaha that’s right Erik, I completely forgot, we are just usurping your home territory
[16:24] aschrijver (humanetech): @Erik tagged?
[16:25] aschrijver (humanetech): I am in Delft, right now. Will deliver a bunch of flowers at the BBB maintainer :smiley:
[16:25] Erik Kemp: Yes I think @how mentioned me in a message
[16:25] Erik Kemp: Haha great. Now I’m really leaving :wink:
[16:25] Joost Agterhoek: We came across this instance before and found it was stable, while we were figuring out a better solution, we stuck with this. Indeed we should show them our gratitude, it has served us quite well. Bye Erik!

Workshop Introduction (5 min)

Overview of the objectives of the workshop:

  1. what we’re trying to build,
  2. what tools will be used,
  3. what result can be expected.

Hands-on ActivtyPub workshop (2 hours)

A hands-on workshop for EU and national administration developers to implement ActivityPub in live conditions.

What we’re trying to build

The objective of this workshop is to demonstrate installation and interaction of various services over ActivityPub. As requested, we’ll build a Mastodon instance (at and a Peertube instance (at Other instances might be installed or interacted with during the workshop.

What tools will be used

The server is running Debian GNU/Linux 10 and is a fresh install.
We’ll use the Nginx web proxy to our services.
In order to share the screen during the workshop, we’ll be using tmux, the terminal multiplexer.

Although you can follow the workshop using the BBB link like for webinars, if you want to see and watch directly from the console, you must provide an SSH key! See

What can be expected

The installation process should take about half an hour. From there the services will be able to interact with each other and the wider Fediverse.

Once the installation phase is complete, we can start exploring the features, discussing moderation with @hamishcampbell, and demonstrate live interaction!

Conclusion (5 min)

Conclusion on lessons learned and future steps to take.

  1. We keep for EDPS to play with: if you’re interested in demonstrating your #software, chime in1
  2. ActivityPub is more than replication of existing platforim services, it enables new ways of approaching social networking!

Discuss this series

  1. Big Blue Button (BBB) is free software for online learning, offering video-conferencing, screen sharing, chat, etc. We use it for the webinars. ↩︎